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UCLA has a shot at being #5 All TIme Wins by season end

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1 month 2 weeks ago - 1 month 2 weeks ago #29867 by HawkErrant
www.rockchalk.com/index.php/forum/basket...-mbb-ay2022-23#29866

The Bruins finished the AY2021-22 season just one game behind the Syracuse Orange and 6 behind the Temple Owls.
As the Bruins fortunes are moving forward under 4th year head coach Mick Cronin, Syracuse and Temple look to be falling behind their past standards.

Winningest coach in Temple history John Chaney (516-253, .671) retired after the AY2005-06 season, and Fran Dunphy (270-162, .625) did a decent job after Chaney. But current HC Aaron McKie (14-24 AY2019-20 thru AY 2021-22, 5-4 so far this season) is looking to be out of a job in the not too distant future if he cannot improve his program.

Syracuse still has Jim Boeheim, but the question is for how much longer, and has JB lost his touch?
His career winning % is well over 70%, but ...

2016 - Last Final Four
114-84 (.576) for AY2016-17 thru AY 2021-22; 4-4 so far this season.
Hasn't won 20 or more games in a season since AY2018-19 (last 3 season).

I reckon I'll be keeping all 3 on the ATWP list until someone passes Syracuse's all-time record including its 101 vacated wins (2061-953 including this season to date; just a cautionary tale in shorthand, if you get my meaning). UCLA is currently 99 wins behind that total. But I may just end up dropping Temple and Syracuse once the Bruins pass the Owls for 5th place.

Whaddaya think?

“The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil but because of the people who don’t do anything about it” ~Albert Einstein
Last Edit: 1 month 2 weeks ago by HawkErrant.
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1 month 2 weeks ago #29869 by DocBlues
Great idea, HE! As of today, what is UCLA's all-time won-loss record? I'd like to put them into my stats.

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1 month 2 weeks ago #29870 by HawkErrant

DocBlues wrote: Great idea, HE! As of today, what is UCLA's all-time won-loss record? I'd like to put them into my stats.


It’s included in the latest post in the All Time Winningest Programs (ATWP) pinned thread (link below), and will be in future updates.

www.rockchalk.com/index.php/forum/basket...-mbb-ay2022-23#29866

As I noted there and here, given the trends I anticipate that UCLA will continue its climb under Mick Cronin, especially as the futures of both Temple and Syracuse do not look nearly as good, with Aaron McKie struggling and Jim Boeheim coming to the end of his career.

“The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil but because of the people who don’t do anything about it” ~Albert Einstein

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1 month 2 weeks ago - 1 month 2 weeks ago #29871 by HawkErrant
Additionally, with UCLA climbing in the Top 5+ All Time Winningest Program ranks, it is interesting to me to note that 5 of the top 7 ATWP are in the list of top 7 NCAA Championship winners (programs with 4 or more NCAAT titles). The two top 7 NCAA title holders who are not in the Top 7 ATWP are Indiana and upstart UConn.
TOP ATWP plus Top 7 NCAA Champions as of 2022-12-04
RANK	PROGRAM		WON	LOST	WIN%	NCAA Titles
1	Kansas		2365	878	0.729	4
2	Kentucky	2359	738	0.761	8
3	N Carolina 	2328	843	0.734	6
4	Duke		2254	913	0.712	5
5	Temple		1966	1125	0.636	0
6	UCLA		1962	884	0.689	11
7	Syracuse -V	1960	953	0.673	1
(#5	Syracuse wV	2061	953	0.684   if not for 101 wins vacated 2015)
OTHER TOP 7 NCAA CHAMPIONSHIP WINNERS
10	Indiana		1897	1091	0.635	5
26	Connecticut	1778	1004	0.639	4

It looks as if both Indiana (7-1 start under 2nd year coach Mike Woodson, an IU grad (1976-80) and NBA player) and UConn (9-0 start this season under former Seton Hall star PG and current 5th year coach Dan Hurley) are well led for the future, so they may be climbing up the ladder, as it were.

“The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil but because of the people who don’t do anything about it” ~Albert Einstein
Last Edit: 1 month 2 weeks ago by HawkErrant.

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1 month 2 weeks ago #29872 by HawkErrant
And a-NOTHER "oh yeah..."

I'd really love to see Bill's teams win 3 more titles before he retires.

Not just because it would put him tied for K with 5, second only to Wooden.

Also because it would put him ahead of Kansas ties coaches The Traitor Smith, Roy and most importantly the bigot baron Rupp.

Of course, it would also give KANSAS 7 NCAA titles, behind only UCLA and UK and (so far) 1 ahead of the tarred ones.

“The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil but because of the people who don’t do anything about it” ~Albert Einstein

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1 month 2 weeks ago #29874 by Socalhawk
Firstly, thank you HE for tracking this.
It’s your chart so you can format as you like, but since you asked; I would have a single entry for Syracuse, w/ an * and notes below. Either measure works .
# You have also shown this with with an additional column - Games Back. I like that as it highlights the precipitous drop after #3.
# By my count KU has six national titles.
# Agree with your thoughts looking forward, IU and CU appear to be set, UNC does not and DU TBD. I feel UNC and DU will be far below their win average of the past few decades in the upcoming years. Hubert Davis has a short leash and may last longer than Matt Dougherty , but not much.
# Adding IU and CU is a solid add. I would also like to see Mizzou and Gonzaga added simply for the Games Back #.

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1 month 2 weeks ago #29875 by HawkErrant

Socalhawk wrote: Firstly, thank you HE for tracking this.

1. It’s your chart so you can format as you like, but since you asked; I would have a single entry for Syracuse, w/ an * and notes below. Either measure works .
2. # You have also shown this with with an additional column - Games Back. I like that as it highlights the precipitous drop after #3.
3. # By my count KU has six national titles.
4. # Agree with your thoughts looking forward, IU and CU appear to be set, UNC does not and DU TBD. I feel UNC and DU will be far below their win average of the past few decades in the upcoming years. Hubert Davis has a short leash and may last longer than Matt Dougherty , but not much.
5. # Adding IU and CU is a solid add. I would also like to see Mizzou and Gonzaga added simply for the Games Back #.


First, I added # to your quoted comments so I may more readily address them.

Second, before I get into my replies, the weekly ATWP posts I make are essentially cut & pasted from my worksheet used to track those records. I was not considering changing the format to what I showed here, which does not show the current year records. The table in this thread was a one timer used to illustrate my comments. More below.

Your 1: The only reason I still have Syracuse in the table at all is because including the 101 vacated wins would still have them in 5th place, well ahead of Temple and UCLA. Without those 101 wins the Orange were essentially neck and neck with the Owls, but a few wins back in 6th place before this year. I figured it would only be a few seasons before the Orange passed the Owls again, but that has not happened. Now UCLA has passed the Orange, and looks to stay ahead of them and maybe get past the Owls before the season is over -- but the Bruins will still be well behind the SU total before the NCAA zap. So I'm looking to keep SU in the table until someone -- presumably the Bruins -- passes their unvacated total. And both SU record lines are displayed as shown because (1) it emphasizes why they are even in the discussion and (2) it's just easier for me in creating the post.

Your 2. As previously noted, the table here was intended as a one time only. The pinned thread posts will continue to show the Games Behind data. The changes I am looking at making will add Indiana and UConn because both are in the Top 7 NCAA title holders, and I felt it would be interesting to show that bit of info.

Your 3. I agree KU has 6 National titles; but we only have 4 NCAAT titles, and that is the measure I am using. Other fans don't include the Helms titles when they talk NCs, and I have no problem with that as they are not the same thing. Also, If I include the Helms titles for KANSAS then I have to do the same for the other programs... and frankly, I'm not interested in doing that.

Your 4. Concur with all your comments, and note that it's Matt Doherty, not Dougherty. Matt was an assistant coach at KU from 1992-1999, so had overlap on the KU staff with Leavenworth native Neil Dougherty, who was a KU assistant coach from 1995-2002 before taking the helm at TCU (2002-2008), so the error is understandable. (You know me by now, I'm a name Nazi -- "one is his name, the other is not").

Your 5. Thanks for the positive input on including IU & UConn. As far as Gonzaga and mOO, the inclusion criteria I am looking at for following a program includes Top 5 ATW or (going forward) leading NCAAT winners (4 or more NCAAT titles). Neither GU nor mOO have an NCAAT, and neither is high enough up the ATW list for inclusion. And frankly, I do not follow mOO since they left the Big 12. I do not look for anything about them unless I am essentially forced to do so, e.g., they are playing KU (or not, in the case of football) or a schadenfreude moment is brought to my attention by a fellow fan. I was not even aware they had a new HC until yesterday. I find my life is much happier without any thought of the slavers.

Thanks again!

“The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil but because of the people who don’t do anything about it” ~Albert Einstein
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