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Bedore article: Big rotation trimmed to 4

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3 years 3 months ago - 3 years 3 months ago #2711 by konza63
The 4 inmates now running the prison have spoken, and their wish has been granted: Mickelson and Diallo are not in the mix.

www2.kusports.com/news/2016/jan/27/going...g-man-rotation-four/

In other words, discard the actual production (Hunter) and the highest athleticism and upside (Diallo) and just go with what makes the "core four" happy.

I woke up this morning prepared to come on here and talk up Coach. But then I read this article first thing, and I'm even more bummed now. I still love HCBS and wouldn't trade him for another. But this season's decision making, the favoritism being shown toward the core four, the head-scratching decision to not lead yourself but to hand over the keys to the jail cells to a sub-group (clique?) on the team (with only one of them--Perry--really deserving to be in charge), and the impulse to dig in one's heels on a system rather than adjust and adapt to the players you have (see: continuous breakdown in our M2M defense due to erratic frontline guard defense) leaves me completely baffled and depressed about the team and its prospects.

The key question I'm left with, concerning this article and the "core four" decision to formally glue Hunter's and Cheick's rears to the bench, is whether it's a forever thing. Is it etched in stone, or if it proves problematic (as it did in Ames), will Self reserve the right to override the sub-group of inmates?

Stay tuned. Truly odd times in Larry Town...

************

PS: Coach's comments about Jamari's play against ISU (focusing solely on the first half, rather than the disastrous second) are beyond sad. It speaks to someone trying to justify a supremely questionable decision after the fact, cherry-picking the facts that might bolster that choice, and turning a blind eye toward the avalanche of countervailing evidence (i.e., the evidence of Jamari being a train wreck, and being front and center on the court during the biggest game swings and ISU runs). Oh well, it is what it is...

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Last Edit: 3 years 3 months ago by konza63.

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3 years 3 months ago #2712 by RobS
OMG. Are you sure that article wasn't a joke from the The Onion?

Self is truly delusional. He looks at the 1st half without realizing the same guys brought on the 2nd half. Why doesn't he look at past games when we played well.

Did I understand him correctly in that he thinks it isn't fair to put pressure on guys to come off of the bench to try and spark the team when the guys who had been playing had dug a deep hole? What? It's like he is not even acknowledging them as part of the team, who might be emotionally invested in winning even when they haven't removed their warm-ups.

Does Self really believe that it's more important for his core 4 to be "comfortable" as opposed to the team winning?

He has truly lost his way.

Mongo just pawn in game of life.

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3 years 3 months ago #2713 by sasnak
This sooo doesn't bode well for the rest of our season and considerably shortens our tournament run :ohmy:

It'll feel better when it stops hurting

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3 years 3 months ago #2714 by AZhawk87
As I said earlier, I just want to enjoy KU BB with my friends, and right now I'm not enjoying any of this. The games are painful to watch, and all of us on this board are so frustrated (rightly so) that discussions are all negative. I'm not pointing fingers - I agree with virtually every comment you all have made. I just am tired of not having anything positive to read about. It's disheartening.

I'm dumbfounded at how Self is acting this season, and the only people more frustrated with all of this than me has to be the players themselves. I'm anticipating another internal conflict ala Greene from a couple weeks ago. I assure you I would have a tough time keeping my mouth shut if I was on the team. Can you imagine the parents and handlers of these kids seeing draft status and skill development plummeting? This entire situation can't be good.

There has been almost zero player development over the past three years - my left arm to have Manning come back. Self is now delegating playing time decisions to four players who have not proven one thing in terms of leadership. In fact, Ellis and Wayne have shown a blatant lack of leadership, or even a desire to lead. This team lacks a true leader on the court, and now there is a lack of leadership from the coaching staff.

I'm officially taking a week off from KU BB and am not going to watch the next couple of games live. I'll tape them and if it seems like they're good games, I'll watch later. I'm hoping for a breather and a re-commitment to KU hoops. I also think this is appropriate for a fan who is disappointed in the KU leadership, and it's my only way of showing them that they are losing my support.

I'm hoping this all gets fixed soon, or else I'll have to start watching soccer.

Rock Chalk.
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3 years 3 months ago #2715 by Wheatstate Gal
Hmmmmm. Hunter and I have a lot in common: we are too "old" to be marketable elsewhere. We gotta just wait this gig out until "retirement."

As I advise my talented, younger and eager co-workers, maybe it's time to market your skills elsewhere, because it appears it ain't gonna happen here for you.

(TMI. Been having trouble sleeping lately, so I'm hopeful my reading comprehension is suffering......but is the gist that bill self is keeping 4 players happy by playing who they want on the floor? My gawd, that sounds more like Roy (oh, please please please just LOVE ME) Williams---although I'm not sure his inmates ever ran the asylum; I think their little butts rode the pine! And NO I'm not missing him. I must STILL have faith in our Self....but this morning it is waivering. Maybe I need more coffee.)

Thanks for understanding....Rock Chalk FOREVER!

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3 years 3 months ago #2716 by JRhawk
A self imposed haitus is preferable to my predicament - a raging head cold. I only checked the half time score Mon night - saw KU up by 7, thought maybe things were better. The next morning, checked the final and the box and saw they were worse.
Also, check the comments below the Bedore story - many of that group mostly support HCBS - but not now.

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3 years 3 months ago #2717 by LasJayhawk
Sounds like there may be some personally issues going on. While I still hope for the best, I suspect Bayhawker will be flying his flag at half mast and upside down soon....

Yea,yea,yea, keepin' the faith
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3 years 3 months ago #2718 by minerscoach
I am one of those that has always supported Coach Self. Sometimes as a coach it is easy to get complacent and begin to believe the hype. I think Coach Self may be there right now. Hopefully he can find the fire again, but once it starts to go it is difficult to get back. May be time for a new challenge for him and time to bring in a young guy with something to prove.

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3 years 3 months ago #2719 by JRhawk
I agree about the absolute insanity of the situation - never let the inmates run the asylum! I see Gary Parrish's article (CBS Sports.com) says KenPom predicts KU at 11-7 in conference, 3 games back of OU. That seems harsh, unless HCBS's decisions re subbing foam over in volcanic fashion. Until they lose a home game or anywhere else but Norman on the road, I still have hope, even while vehemently disagreeing with HCBS's coaching.

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3 years 3 months ago #2721 by Bayhawk
So far the flag is still full staff with the beak towering toward the blue. It won't come down until the final game of the season (which I fear will come waaaaaay too soon. :huh: ).

Somebody on this board (HE?) years ago mentioned that they make a point of representing the day after a loss just to affirm their loyalty to the ole crimson and blue. I've adopted that practice and painfully struggle to let others know I'm a proud Jayhawk regardless of the score. This Sunday promises to be very painful at the rate things are going. :angry: Nonetheless, I remain a Jayhawk for life.

RCJHGKU!!!!! ;)

The end is nothing; the road is all.
-- Jules Michelet
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3 years 3 months ago #2722 by Senex68
Reality. Frank Mason and Devonte Graham are not great players. Neither is going to the NBA anytime soon. They have flawed games, and clearly haven't been able to correct their mental approach, resulting in inconsistent play and sometimes downright ugly play. They are no better than average guards.

Wayne Selden is not much better than Frank and Devonte. He cannot create offense, doesn't shoot well when under pressure, cannot shoot with his left hand, demonstrates poor judgement when trying to penetrate, doesn't have great 'handles,' and is a so-so defender. And considering his size and athletiicism, doesn't rebound well at all. Again, an average guard for a top tier Diviision 1 program.

Ellis is terrific, but cannot excel on his own. He needs guards to create opportunities for him, because he simply isn't big enough to score over tall and long defenders. Without a viable offensive partner at the 5, he loses a lot of his value, because he is doubled every time he gets the ball inside of 15 feet.

Lucas is no better than a bench center on most good teams. He's big, and he's big, but he can't shoot, is slow, can't jump, and can't shoot. He would be OK on a team with great guards and a tall and versatile 4, but we don't have that luxury. In short, his inability to score is killing us.

Self is disintegrating before our eyes. It's always easy to defend someone with a great history of success, and assert that current issues are anomalies, and will be corrected soon. Our issues are not anomalies, but the end result of years of diminishing success in two vital areas. One, our recruiting has been less than great. Frank and Devonte were lower tier recruits for a reason, and we're seeing the results of their recruitment today. Both would be OK if they had Aaron Miles or Sherron Collins or even Tyshawn as their partner, but they don't. Neither is complete, and their skills are redundant, not complementary. Self hasn't brought in the kind of PG we need, and we are suffering as a result. In addition, we don't have a competent center, This is not an accident. The recruits we're now getting are either gone before they can make a positive impact, or they are resting their behinds on the bench, buried behind obviously less talented players. As I have surmised, something is wrong with the mentality of this team. Self is distracted, and his players sense it clearly. In short, the program is in crisis, everyone knows it, yet nobody within the 'community' appears willing to state the obvious. I now believe that Self is going to leave KU after the season, either to the NBA or to OSU. He's bored, he's tired, and Lawrence and the 'rumors' are tightening their grip around his neck. Be prepared for another month of supreme angst and a new coach when this season ends.

"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”

Glenn Reynolds
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3 years 3 months ago #2723 by konza63
I can't say I disagree with the player assessments.

As for the closing line:

I now believe that Self is going to leave KU after the season, either to the NBA or to OSU. He's bored, he's tired, and Lawrence and the 'rumors' are tightening their grip around his neck. Be prepared for another month of supreme angst and a new coach when this season ends.

You could be completely spot on here...but I sincerely hope you're wrong. (Not for any personal reasons, but for the integrity and stability of our beloved program and school) I also hope that any critiques of Self we have individually and collectively made (myself very much included) turn out to be delusional and incorrect by the time March and April roll around. In other words, I hope he is very much still tuned in, for whatever reason went off course a bit, and soon will right the ship and galvanize some notable success.

After that, I hope he stays with the program and leads us to new heights. For at the end of the day, he's accomplished a great deal at KU, including that insane 200-9 record at AFH (which no future KU coach will likely ever match). He's represented the program exceptionally well and helped keep KU hoops prominently on the national map, when it could've gone south in the aftermath of Roy's departure. We also are a program that stands out for not making excessive coaching changes. The fact that we can count them on just two hands is truly remarkable given how long the program has been operating. It speaks to the institutional integrity and tradition of excellence. For all of those reasons and more, I believe he deserves respect and a bit of collective faith--notwithstanding his most recent decisions (or ceding of decisions) and the angst they are causing throughout the Flock as we speak.

I'm trying to keep some element of faith and positivism at a time of immense uncertainty. :dry:

Rock Chalk...

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
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3 years 3 months ago #2725 by LSHawk
Of course, there's what we on this board think can/should/will happen with HCBS after this or any season. Then there's those with real power to influence a coaching change (e.g., WEF donors, Alumni Association, AD, Chancellor, etc.). If there's a, what, fourth consecutive postseason flameout, will buzzing start at those levels?

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3 years 3 months ago #2726 by Senex68
I want to emphasize that this scenario, or these scenarios, are not what I want. I just happen to believe that when inexplicable things happen, there is an explanation, and that explanation is often not a pleasant or happy one. This season has become "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."

"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”

Glenn Reynolds

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3 years 3 months ago #2727 by Wheatstate Gal
I would never have been so bold as to post what Senex was confident (and learned) enough to say.

As I was drinking coffee this morning the thought hit me:

Is B Self PLANNING on leaving at the end of the season?

We are "stinking it up" (compared to our usual standards).
Has he ceded control to the inmates; which might result in the most vast bench clearing of all time (transfers/early exits to try the draft);
New commitments will be released because the Coach they committed to is no longer at Kansas?

He'd leave a dung heap behind but "most" of the players/recruits he committed to have outs.

whoa...not sure I can take another ugly "splitting of the sheets" in my lifetime. :(

I'd bet "the league"....not OSU. But I know no-THING! (sgt schultz)

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3 years 3 months ago #2728 by konza63
Thanks for the follow-up, Peter.

If, once the season is over, it turns out that the riddle/mystery/enigma can be explained by Self having been focused on the NBA, I reserve the right to re-frame my earlier comments. :angry:

Some things have played to form (fixation on pounding the post, short leash for the developing guys, intransigence about shifting from M2M even when our guards can't execute it, "fools-gold" aversion to the 3, and an unwillingness to use our immense depth in waves to wear down opponents). Other things have not, however (namely, this latest bizarre news of empowering a sub-group on the team to make the call on personnel, and seemingly punting--in the process--on the recruiting effort).

11 games to go. That's all we have. It will be very telling how this all unfolds...

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.

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3 years 3 months ago #2729 by konza63
If we get our rears handed to us...at home...by a fitful, underperforming, yet utterly despised ConTucky team this weekend, the force with which the collective heads of the Flock explode will be greater than anything ever witnessed on or around Bikini Atoll.

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.

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3 years 3 months ago #2730 by Bayhawk
WSG, I'm sending you to the Russian front!

General Burkhalter,

RC

The end is nothing; the road is all.
-- Jules Michelet

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3 years 3 months ago #2731 by Senex68
I believe that we're going to be fine at home this season. For whatever reason, these guys actually play pretty well in Allen. Travel anywhere, and the further away, the less effective we become. Saturday should be quite enjoyable, methinks, but I wouldn't be too optimistic about the next road game.

"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”

Glenn Reynolds

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3 years 3 months ago #2734 by replayloungehawk
Senex, I always enjoy your input, immensely. In fact, when things are going wrong with the team I look for your posts. This time though I have to disagree that Self is leavin. Unless you have some reliable inside information, I see no reason why he would leave. He had the chance to coach OKC last year I believe and that would have been a dream NBA job. Location and talent all in one.

That said, the team is certainly struggling and it's hard to even watch them. Self isn't giving Bragg or Diallo enough time to make a mistake and figure things out. Which I don't get. I also don't get what happened to Mickleson? I didn't see much wrong with him...not to just be planted on the bench never to see playing time again. Why does he leave Mason and Graham in to just drive in and turn the ball over five straight possessions? Why aren't they pulled and someone else given a chance?

I really don't have an answer for any of what is going on right now. I just hope things get worked out soon.

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