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Updated DPPI and Seeding (Does KU deserve a 1 seed?)

  • CorpusJayhawk
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7 years 6 months ago #17290 by CorpusJayhawk
Does KU deserve a 1 seed. That depends entirely on what your criteria are. Is KU likely one of the best 4 teams in the country. I would say almost definitively no. I have Villanova as the top team with Virginia 2nd. But here is where my DPPI will differs from the criteria of the selection committee. My DPPI is intended to be predictive of outcome. It does not reward a wion purely because it is a win since the fact of the win is not as improtant to predictive accuracy as the scoring margin or the way they play (consistency, get tougher when the competition is tougher, etc.) If you are rewarding seeding, it should be (in my opinion) more heavily weighted on winning. And when it comes to winning KU has done that. They won the Big 12. KU has defeated 13 top 50 teams. That is tied with North Carolina dn only 1 behind fellow No. 1 seed Virginia. Louisville has defeated 12 and 4 teams are tied with 11. Louisville has also lost to and UNC has lost to 8. KU has the second best record (13-2) to Virginia (14-2). As for top 25, Kansas has the most wins and the best record. KU has defeated 6 top 25 teams which is tied with North Carolina. But KU has lost only once compared to North Carolina's 4 losses. Duke, by the way, is 4-3. Kansas has not played a top 10 DPPI team and you can't penalize them for that. So I'd say there is nothing that can keep KU off the one line at this point. It is a fait accompli even though I have them as the 10th best team in the country. As for Xavier, that is a much tougher sell. I have Xavier as the 11th best team in the country and the composite of all computers had them at 7 before their loss to Providence. By my DPPI, they are 1-2 against top 10 teams, 3-2 against top 25 teams and 8-2 against top 50 teams. Xavier is a nice team but I would not have them on the 1 line. So if Virginia and Villanova are no-brainers and KU seems to have the CV to be on the one line, who should be the 4th 1 seed? I submit 4 teams that have the CV to make a case.

Duke -- Ranked 3rd in DPPI, 3rd in composite, 2-3 against top 10 teams, 4-3 against top 25 teams, 11-5 against top 50. They finished 2nd in the ACC and lost to NC in the semi's of the ACC tourney.

Purdue -- 4th in the DPPI, 5th in composite, 2-2 against top 10, 5-4 against top 25 and 9-4 against top 50. Sounds similar to Duke. Purdue finished 2nd in the Big 10 and lost to a strong Michigan team in the Big 10 tourney final. Based on the computer composite, the Big 10 is the 5th rated conference (ACC is 4th).

Michigan St. -- 5th in the DPPI, 6th in composite, 2-3 against top 10, 3-4 against top 25 and 6-4 against top 50. They won the Big 10 regular season and lost to the eventual champ Michigan in the semi's of the Big 10 tourney.

North Carolina -- 6th in the DPPI, 9th in composite, 3-3 against top 10, 6-4 against top 25 and 13-8 against top 50 They finished 6 games back and in a 4 way tie for third in the ACC. They are playing for the ACC championship today.

I submit that all of these teams would rank ahead of Xavier for me. North Carolina has too many losses (9) and was not competitive in the ACC regular season title. Michigan won the Big Ten and that has clout and they have only 4 losses. I would give then serious consideration for the 1 seed but Joey Brackets has them as a 3 seed so I will say it probably is not going to happen.

Purdue was 2nd in the Big Ten regular season and tourney. No championship to claim. (But neither does Xavier). They have 6 losses but KU has 7. Purdue has to be in the discussion. Duke, is Duke. They are the creme de la creme of the game and good for ratings. They have 5 1st rounders on the roster and Grayson Allen who everyone is rooting for to have a meltdown. Heck, he had another incidence in the UNC game yesterday. It was played down only because Duke owns ESPN or at least Jay (how can you doubt me) Bilas used his Duke force and said "move along, these are not the droids you are looking for." and ESPN dutifully moved along. Seriously, Duke has the best claim to the final 1 seed at this point. They have 7 losses, like Kansas, no championship but who would not love a KU Duke final four matchup? I say Duke gets the last No. 1 seed.


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  • HawkErrant
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7 years 6 months ago - 7 years 6 months ago #17294 by HawkErrant
Thanks, Corpus!

I like the way you think, but I believe that Xavier has been getting too much love and with the Duke loss will still be a 1. I know I'd rather see them as a 2 with KU than to see #2 Duke in KU's bracket, but the Selection Committee just seems too perverse at times for that not to happen.

Below I'm repeating my earlier post from last night here so we can have a relatively streamlined new seeding post to follow, while still linking back to the earlier excellent discussion in the "NCAA Seeding?" thread.

But before the repeat begins, for those interested -- here is a link to the latest Bracketology rankings from The Bracket Project.
A quick scan of their Top 10 bracketologists shows they all have Xavier as a 1 seed. The only real difference between them is that one has Purdue as a 1 over KANSAS. Uh, no... One other quick note -- their top ranked bracketologist is Bracketville, and it has KU projected to be in the unenviable position I noted last night and in the repeat below. Please, sir, no, and thank you!

Second posting begins here...
===================

Before today (Fri, 2018-03-09) the talk for the projected 1 seeds (from first to fourth 1 seed) and their regions has been as follows:

Virginia (Charlottesville, VA) - South
Villanova (Philadelphia, PA) - East
Xavier (Cincinnati, OH) - Midwest
KANSAS (Lawrence, KS) - West

with Duke being practically everybody's (not just Lunardi's) first 2 seed, and the talk being that if Duke could win the ACC Tournament it would leapfrog KANSAS for the 4th #1 seed.

Today --

KANSAS beat KSU to advance to the Big 12 T final.
UNC sent Duke packing to prepare for its 2 seed posting, and
Providence beat Xavier in a Big East semifinal to knock the Musketeers out of the Big East Tournament, but not out of their 1 seed projection.

SO...

Whether we want it or not, with the KANSAS Big 12T wins and the Duke loss tonight it looks as if KANSAS is a lock for a 1 seed regardless of the outcome of tomorrow's Big 12 T game against WVU.

The big question now is this -- if KANSAS wins the Big 12 T, will that give our Jayhawks enough "oomph" with the Selection Committee to keep KANSAS in the Midwest (Regional Finals in Omaha) and send Xavier to the West (Regional Finals in Los Angeles)?

I would prefer the Midwest so KANSAS plays in Omaha if our guys get to the Sweet 16, but more than anything else I would really like to see KANSAS get a break in who fills out the bracket in whatever region they end up heading. For example, here's Lunardi's projections as of tonight --



If the only changes to these projections would be for KANSAS and Xavier to end up switching regions -- i.e., all the other teams in the two projected brackets stayed the same -- I would just as soon KANSAS got assigned to the West and not the Midwest. I would HATE for KANSAS to possibly have to face any of these teams before the Final Four --

UNC
Michigan St
Wichita St
Kentucky
Missouri
Kansas St

What say ye?

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Last Edit: 7 years 6 months ago by HawkErrant.

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7 years 6 months ago #17296 by JRhawk
HE - yes, would be great if KU were in Midwest Region. I have tickets for it - naturally, I like you stated, would hate to see WSU there if KU is there. Don't want any 2015 repeats. WSU still has two games left in the AAC tourney - of course the finals end just before the selection show starts - beyond moronic IMHO. Of course, one bad game and possibly neither get past the first weekend.
CJ - Wouldn't worry about what Lunardi thinks - he is below average among bracketologists (at least in making picks - probably gets paid more than most though).
The plot thickens.

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7 years 6 months ago - 7 years 6 months ago #17297 by HawkErrant

JRhawk wrote: HE - yes, would be great if KU were in Midwest Region. I have tickets for it - naturally, I like you stated, would hate to see WSU there if KU is there. Don't want any 2015 repeats. WSU still has two games left in the AAC tourney - of course the finals end just before the selection show starts - beyond moronic IMHO. Of course, one bad game and possibly neither get past the first weekend.
CJ - Wouldn't worry about what Lunardi thinks - he is below average among bracketologists (at least in making picks - probably gets paid more than most though).
The plot thickens.


I agree with you on Lunardi, JR, but The Bracket Project data ranks him at #40 among the 113 bracketologist sites that have been doing projections for 3 or more years. That 35% (40/113) puts him either at the back of the lead group or the head of the rest, depending on the perspective taken.

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Last Edit: 7 years 6 months ago by HawkErrant.

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7 years 6 months ago #17310 by hairyhawk
On a bit unrelated topic. I do not understand why Joe says OU who is in shambles is last 4 in and OSU who really came on late in the year is first 4 out. That makes no sense to me.
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7 years 6 months ago #17316 by HawkErrant
Same here, hairy.

I will be very unhappy if OU gets in, and even more so if OSU doesn’t.

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"

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7 years 6 months ago #17318 by Hawknmo
Short answer to the OP is yes. A month ago I wasn’t sure. I am now. Who is better?

Also agree on OSU. They are a much better “team” than OU.

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7 years 6 months ago #17319 by Wheatstate Gal
But, Guys.....how can the team w the national player of the year be left out of the field? That could cause a national uproar.

Selections and seedlings ALWAYS prompt much conversation.

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