When one becomes a human being
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5 years 10 months ago #18690
by murphyslaw
I found this among my papers and believe it was penned by Michael Moore. Regardless of its authorship, it is the best explanation of when one becomes a human that I've found.
"Until the fetus can survive outside the womb, it is a FORM of life, but not a human being. A sperm, and egg, a fertilized egg, or a
fetus--all are life but none are a human being, just as a seed or a stem is not a flower. Your birthday is the day you came out of
the womb, not the day you were conceived."
Any comments?
"Until the fetus can survive outside the womb, it is a FORM of life, but not a human being. A sperm, and egg, a fertilized egg, or a
fetus--all are life but none are a human being, just as a seed or a stem is not a flower. Your birthday is the day you came out of
the womb, not the day you were conceived."
Any comments?
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- DocBlues
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5 years 10 months ago #18691
by DocBlues
I've had this discussion numerous times with pro-fetus folks. They incorrectly equate a fetus with a baby ("abortion kills babies!"). A fetus is no more a baby than an acorn is an oak tree seedling. The distinction that life can exist in various forms is important and one that makes the pro-fetus people uncomfortable. I'm reminded of the Monty Python skit in which "every sperm is sacred!"
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5 years 10 months ago #18693
by Kong
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There are several factors at play, at least as I see it, with this issue.
The first is your view of life. If you believe that life begins at conception, then that is it. Nothing further needs to be said.
If you believe that life begins the moment a fetus is capable of surviving outside the womb, then you have a different set of questions you have to answer. The first is that this has actually changed over time as technology has allowed for earlier and earlier births. So at the very least this standard is somewhat arbitrary. It is certainly moveable.
So it will depend on your view if abortion is taking life away (regardless of the form) then it doesn't matter whether or not you believe the fetus could survive outside. If you believe that abortion takes away a life only if it could survive outside the womb, then you have to admit that technology has changed that status and who is to say how far that change will go, therefore, where do you draw the line?
But you are correct, that is the ultimate question. And how you answer that determines where you stand on the issue. Both sides have valid arguments and beliefs on this issue, in my opinion.
The first is your view of life. If you believe that life begins at conception, then that is it. Nothing further needs to be said.
If you believe that life begins the moment a fetus is capable of surviving outside the womb, then you have a different set of questions you have to answer. The first is that this has actually changed over time as technology has allowed for earlier and earlier births. So at the very least this standard is somewhat arbitrary. It is certainly moveable.
So it will depend on your view if abortion is taking life away (regardless of the form) then it doesn't matter whether or not you believe the fetus could survive outside. If you believe that abortion takes away a life only if it could survive outside the womb, then you have to admit that technology has changed that status and who is to say how far that change will go, therefore, where do you draw the line?
But you are correct, that is the ultimate question. And how you answer that determines where you stand on the issue. Both sides have valid arguments and beliefs on this issue, in my opinion.
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5 years 10 months ago #18695
by murphyslaw
You raise interesting points.
So to simplify the whole matter, I will boil it down to the fact that a woman has the right to make decisions about her own body. This fact should not be a political, religious, or scientific matter. Whether the woman wants to continue the pregnancy or not, is entirely up to her.
A woman should never be forced to have an abortion, nor should she ever be forced to continue a pregnancy, regardless of scientific/medical advancements. This makes the question of when life begins moot. I just found Moore's explanation logical.
So to simplify the whole matter, I will boil it down to the fact that a woman has the right to make decisions about her own body. This fact should not be a political, religious, or scientific matter. Whether the woman wants to continue the pregnancy or not, is entirely up to her.
A woman should never be forced to have an abortion, nor should she ever be forced to continue a pregnancy, regardless of scientific/medical advancements. This makes the question of when life begins moot. I just found Moore's explanation logical.
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5 years 10 months ago #18697
by Kong
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Where life begins and a woman's right to her own body are two separate, yet connected topics.
If you are of the opinion that a woman's right to her own body is completely independent of and overrides any life determination of the fetus, then you are correct all the way up until the due date she should have the right to an abortion.
If, however, you believe that a woman's right has to be tempered with when life is determined because you feel that life also has rights, then you have all the above issues in play.
It just depends on your perspective. What may be simple and clear for one, might be very unclear to others.
If you are of the opinion that a woman's right to her own body is completely independent of and overrides any life determination of the fetus, then you are correct all the way up until the due date she should have the right to an abortion.
If, however, you believe that a woman's right has to be tempered with when life is determined because you feel that life also has rights, then you have all the above issues in play.
It just depends on your perspective. What may be simple and clear for one, might be very unclear to others.
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5 years 10 months ago #18707
by murphyslaw
And how does one arrive at a certain perspective? Each person has a viable reason for that perspective, whether it is a continuation of one's upbringing, a result of studying the issues, questioning the reasoning of others, accepting a religious tenet, or other such determining factors. In my opinion, arriving at what is clear happens best by questioning, and then there is no further need to muddy the waters.
My problem with the entire issue is when people attempt to force their beliefs on others. My life's passion is more about seeking respect for my beliefs about a woman's rights than it is denigrating others for their opposite perspectives.
My problem with the entire issue is when people attempt to force their beliefs on others. My life's passion is more about seeking respect for my beliefs about a woman's rights than it is denigrating others for their opposite perspectives.
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