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Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Why are Self's teams so mediocre on the road?
- Senex68
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1 month 2 weeks ago #34879
by Senex68
"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”
Glenn Reynolds
For the past four years we've been under .500 on the road. Why?
"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”
Glenn Reynolds
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- NotOstertag
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1 month 2 weeks ago - 1 month 2 weeks ago #34880
by NotOstertag
NIL and the portal have ruined college sports.
This would take a deeper analysis. For example, how does KU compare to other programs (i.e. what is the benchmark/baseline for top 5 teams away records?).
Also, there's the causation vs. correlation dilemma. Our teams over the past 4 years have performed below our typical standard. Is the lower performance partially caused by the road games, or is subpar play away from home merely a reflection of overall mediocre performance across the board (a correlation)?
Finally, I think we'd need to look at the schedule and look at SOS of our road schedule to see if that's gotten stronger or stayed the same. The Big 12 has expanded adding more competitive teams to our schedule, and KU has historically scheduled a difficult non-con schedule, so a deeper dive would be necessary to understand those changes if they exist.
My 'best guess' is simply that we've had a 4 year "slump" that we're all aware of and have discussed ad nauseum over the past 4 years: the injury-laded "fizzle" we experienced in the stretch in '23, the failed Hunter experiments of '24 and '25, and this year's Peterson issues all resulted in flawed teams that would have a harder time winning in hostile places.
I'm guessing the counter argument to this revolves around some of the absolute turds we've produced on the road recently where we've lost games like WVU and ASU this year, UCF last year, and some others that I have thankfully blocked from my memory. These "unforced errors" could demonstrate a negligence in being prepared to play.
Finally a conspiracy theory: The KU team planes/busses are clearly jinxed and need to be replaced or at least exorcised of whatever demons have possessed them.
Also, there's the causation vs. correlation dilemma. Our teams over the past 4 years have performed below our typical standard. Is the lower performance partially caused by the road games, or is subpar play away from home merely a reflection of overall mediocre performance across the board (a correlation)?
Finally, I think we'd need to look at the schedule and look at SOS of our road schedule to see if that's gotten stronger or stayed the same. The Big 12 has expanded adding more competitive teams to our schedule, and KU has historically scheduled a difficult non-con schedule, so a deeper dive would be necessary to understand those changes if they exist.
My 'best guess' is simply that we've had a 4 year "slump" that we're all aware of and have discussed ad nauseum over the past 4 years: the injury-laded "fizzle" we experienced in the stretch in '23, the failed Hunter experiments of '24 and '25, and this year's Peterson issues all resulted in flawed teams that would have a harder time winning in hostile places.
I'm guessing the counter argument to this revolves around some of the absolute turds we've produced on the road recently where we've lost games like WVU and ASU this year, UCF last year, and some others that I have thankfully blocked from my memory. These "unforced errors" could demonstrate a negligence in being prepared to play.
Finally a conspiracy theory: The KU team planes/busses are clearly jinxed and need to be replaced or at least exorcised of whatever demons have possessed them.
NIL and the portal have ruined college sports.
Last Edit: 1 month 2 weeks ago by NotOstertag.
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- Bayhawk
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1 month 2 weeks ago #34881
by Bayhawk
The end is nothing; the road is all.
-- Jules Michelet
Lack of Phog? 
--RC
--RC
The end is nothing; the road is all.
-- Jules Michelet
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- Senex68
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1 month 2 weeks ago #34882
by Senex68
"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”
Glenn Reynolds
In the past three years, our winning percentage away from the Fieldhouse is 47.2% (25-28). And that includes quite a few games at T-Mobile with very friendly atmospheres. In the preceding ten years, we won at a 67.7% clip (132-63).
"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”
Glenn Reynolds
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1 month 2 weeks ago #34886
by NotOstertag
NIL and the portal have ruined college sports.
Correct. In years past, if the strategy was to win all the home games and half (or actually half +1) of your road games in the conference slate, and you'd win the regular season title.
In the preseason, we play very few "true" road games and most of the neutral court games are against the top opponents, so many of those are 'toss up" odds.
Nevertheless, my point is that I think it's just a correlation of having more flawed teams over the last year than something specific to road games. We're losing at home too which is un-KU-like. Bad teams can lose anywhere. That's why they're bad teams.
In the preseason, we play very few "true" road games and most of the neutral court games are against the top opponents, so many of those are 'toss up" odds.
Nevertheless, my point is that I think it's just a correlation of having more flawed teams over the last year than something specific to road games. We're losing at home too which is un-KU-like. Bad teams can lose anywhere. That's why they're bad teams.
NIL and the portal have ruined college sports.
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- Kong
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1 month 2 weeks ago #34887
by Kong
Visualize Whirled Peas
I think that if you go back and look at Self’s best teams they were with players who were within his system for multiple years developing into his players. This allowed him to add to all of his standard plays with a variety of nuances as the majority of plays were now subject to muscle memory. He developed bigs and built around them with strong guard play all within the confines of his development.
This also allowed for them to play the type of smothering defense that led to fast breaks and reduced opponent scoring accordingly.
As Senex points out the last three years has seen a major decline in our winning percentage. I would suggest that the transfer portal is dramatically reducing his ability to develop players on both ends of the court. You add to it NIL and you look at those we have picked up and they have not only not developed within his system, but may have been mismatched to our needs or had not lived up to their (and our) expectations.
To me it all goes back to transfer portal and NIL as these are not practices that allign to Self’s strengths.
This is all just a quick hit on the topics, but I think you get a gist of my point.
Just my $.02
This also allowed for them to play the type of smothering defense that led to fast breaks and reduced opponent scoring accordingly.
As Senex points out the last three years has seen a major decline in our winning percentage. I would suggest that the transfer portal is dramatically reducing his ability to develop players on both ends of the court. You add to it NIL and you look at those we have picked up and they have not only not developed within his system, but may have been mismatched to our needs or had not lived up to their (and our) expectations.
To me it all goes back to transfer portal and NIL as these are not practices that allign to Self’s strengths.
This is all just a quick hit on the topics, but I think you get a gist of my point.
Just my $.02
Visualize Whirled Peas
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- Senex68
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1 month 2 weeks ago #34890
by Senex68
"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”
Glenn Reynolds
The paradox is we beat Arizona, ISU, and Houston at home and then get absolutely hammered at their house. The differences are so profound it's as if we were two different teams. Being that bi-polar is not ............normal. So what is it that makes us terrific at home and just awful on the road? NIL and the portal explain a lot about team construction, but does not explain the bizarre performance differential.
"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”
Glenn Reynolds
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- Kong
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1 month 2 weeks ago #34892
by Kong
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I still think NIL and transfer portal play in to it. It is much easier to play well when the crowd is roaring for you at home and you have talent.
When you are on the road and the crowd is against you and you have limited plains time with your teammates and therefor, perhaps, less confidence in the team concept, you tend to rely on your individual skills. And that doesn’t always transfer well. Specially when you have a system type coach like Self.
Does it explain it all? Probably not. But I think it is a large part of it.
It certainly doesn’t help us fans any. The past few years we have witnessed bi-polar play, lack of energy and enthusiasm, and very inconsistent play. I don’t think they play with the same freedom as past years due to the time spent in the system.
Again, just my $.02
When you are on the road and the crowd is against you and you have limited plains time with your teammates and therefor, perhaps, less confidence in the team concept, you tend to rely on your individual skills. And that doesn’t always transfer well. Specially when you have a system type coach like Self.
Does it explain it all? Probably not. But I think it is a large part of it.
It certainly doesn’t help us fans any. The past few years we have witnessed bi-polar play, lack of energy and enthusiasm, and very inconsistent play. I don’t think they play with the same freedom as past years due to the time spent in the system.
Again, just my $.02
Visualize Whirled Peas
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1 month 2 weeks ago - 1 month 2 weeks ago #34893
by porthawk
Kong, I've often thought about what you said and happen to agree with it. I can't think of any other reason that it can be chalked up to. His health? His competitive fire (which I don't think has waned)?
Again, I think what you wrote perfectly captures the reason for the lesser play.
Our team in 2022 you had:
senior Agbaji (a hugely developed player)
senior McCormack (same)
junior Braun (same)
junior KJ Adam (a hugely developed role player)
Transfer Remy Martin (didn't need to be a star, but was the consummate spark plug with his scoring ability)
Put that together and the sum of whole is greater than its parts.
Since that year (NIL/Portal additions), the above development and chemistry just wasn't able to take place. Even a masterful coach such as Bill Self can't add three years of experience to first year players.
Again, I think what you wrote perfectly captures the reason for the lesser play.
Our team in 2022 you had:
senior Agbaji (a hugely developed player)
senior McCormack (same)
junior Braun (same)
junior KJ Adam (a hugely developed role player)
Transfer Remy Martin (didn't need to be a star, but was the consummate spark plug with his scoring ability)
Put that together and the sum of whole is greater than its parts.
Since that year (NIL/Portal additions), the above development and chemistry just wasn't able to take place. Even a masterful coach such as Bill Self can't add three years of experience to first year players.
Last Edit: 1 month 2 weeks ago by porthawk.
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- NotOstertag
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1 month 2 weeks ago #34895
by NotOstertag
NIL and the portal have ruined college sports.
Good point on the bipolar thing. NIL and portal = immature players who might not be used to playing in bigtime hostile environments. Even the random one-and-done could often rely on a couple of juniors and seniors on the floor who have built up callouses to the adversities you face on the road.
I have a partial solution, by the way: lock all NIL atheletes into 2-year contracts. If you want NIL, you have to stay 2 years and can't transfer. Even if you quit the team, you can't play elsewhere within that 2-year period. It essentially brings back the "sit a year if you transfer" rule, but disallows the transfer. If you only want to play for 1 year, you either don't get paid, or you go to the G-league.
Toss in some kind of salary cap and maybe we have a road back to sanity.
I have a partial solution, by the way: lock all NIL atheletes into 2-year contracts. If you want NIL, you have to stay 2 years and can't transfer. Even if you quit the team, you can't play elsewhere within that 2-year period. It essentially brings back the "sit a year if you transfer" rule, but disallows the transfer. If you only want to play for 1 year, you either don't get paid, or you go to the G-league.
Toss in some kind of salary cap and maybe we have a road back to sanity.
NIL and the portal have ruined college sports.
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- hairyhawk
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1 month 2 weeks ago #34899
by hairyhawk
I think that may be seen if we look at made baskets vs assists. I remember when we we would have assists to over 50% of the baskets but it doesn't seem like that is the case these days. I would happily defer to Corpus's analytics but that is what it seems like to me.
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1 month 2 weeks ago #34901
by hairyhawk
yesterday it worked and said I had 60 minutes. but today it doesn't. I guess I don't get to watch.
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