×
Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Self and the outcome
- konza63
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- Moderator
-
- c'85 Towering toward the Blue
Less
More
- Posts: 2201
- Thank you received: 1273
1 year 1 month ago #30773
by konza63
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Imagine the Chiefs playing a playoff game without Andy Reid on the field or in the booth. Playing a solid foe that presents matchup problems. That was KU yesterday.
No disrespect to any assistant coaches, but Self and Reid are at another level. That was a huge absence yesterday, and a supremely tough break (and resultant abrupt ending) for the players.
No disrespect to any assistant coaches, but Self and Reid are at another level. That was a huge absence yesterday, and a supremely tough break (and resultant abrupt ending) for the players.
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
The following user(s) said Thank You: HawkErrant, Bayhawk
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Share this page:
- replayloungehawk
-
- Offline
- Platinum Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 402
- Thank you received: 404
1 year 1 month ago #30774
by replayloungehawk
Couldn't agree more. As much as they talk about Self preparing the team and the guys being able to execute, there were things that happened in that game that I think he'd of handled differently. This is almost as bad, but not quite, as the team not evening getting to play in 2020.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- konza63
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- Moderator
-
- c'85 Towering toward the Blue
Less
More
- Posts: 2201
- Thank you received: 1273
1 year 1 month ago #30781
by konza63
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
From Sam McDowell’s KC Star piece, which I just read and strongly supports the (admittedly unprovable) premise:
“For more than a decade, the Jayhawks have turned a stat that many consider a stroke of good luck — winning close games — into more of an art form. But on Saturday evening, their Pablo Picasso was confined to a hotel suite.
It’s a Hall of Fame coach relegated to a spectator. Even as his coaching staff covered adequately for a week, it had to matter at some point.
In a survey of 33 head coaches earlier this month conducted by The Athletic, 15 said they considered Self the best big-game coach in America. No other coach received even five votes.
In other words, nearly half the coaches in America think there would be a drop-off from Bill Self to literally anybody. That’s the point.
KU did not have the talent of a No. 1 seed this year. The metrics did not like the Jayhawks as much as the win-loss record did. They played above their means, because Self so routinely coaches above the mean. He wins 9% more close games than any of his counterparts, per this study from a Reddit user two years ago. It is statistical evidence that debunks the thought that games like this are a coin flip, even if they are not the best indicator of quality.
We got the anecdotal version Saturday.”
Read more at: www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-bl...0.html#storylink=cpy
“For more than a decade, the Jayhawks have turned a stat that many consider a stroke of good luck — winning close games — into more of an art form. But on Saturday evening, their Pablo Picasso was confined to a hotel suite.
It’s a Hall of Fame coach relegated to a spectator. Even as his coaching staff covered adequately for a week, it had to matter at some point.
In a survey of 33 head coaches earlier this month conducted by The Athletic, 15 said they considered Self the best big-game coach in America. No other coach received even five votes.
In other words, nearly half the coaches in America think there would be a drop-off from Bill Self to literally anybody. That’s the point.
KU did not have the talent of a No. 1 seed this year. The metrics did not like the Jayhawks as much as the win-loss record did. They played above their means, because Self so routinely coaches above the mean. He wins 9% more close games than any of his counterparts, per this study from a Reddit user two years ago. It is statistical evidence that debunks the thought that games like this are a coin flip, even if they are not the best indicator of quality.
We got the anecdotal version Saturday.”
Read more at: www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-bl...0.html#storylink=cpy
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Bayhawk, Socalhawk, jaythawk1
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Senex68
-
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 266
- Thank you received: 184
1 year 1 month ago #30783
by Senex68
"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”
Glenn Reynolds
How many points was Bill Self worth? Two? Five? Ten? It simply defies reality to expect Norm Roberts to replicate Bill Self. His history is a strong indicator that he is not a great head coach. His game management was ..........less than stellar. We played below our ability and it cost us the game. If anyone believes that Self is worth less than 2 points to the KU team score, they should be institutionalized.
In addition to the normal and expected issues we face, as does every team, one that really created a problem for us was the ankle injury suffered by Harris when he stepped on the leg of a photographer. He simply was not the same in the 2nd half as his lateral mobility was impaired significantly. Why photographers are permitted to sit on the floor so close to the game action has always mystified me, and the incident yesterday was disastrous for us.
It's a shame that we had to deal with that kind of adversity because with Self we had a decent shot at another title. On the other hand it's possible that Self would not have coached again this tournament, and inevitably we'd have lost down the line before the Final 4. So between 2020 and Covid, and this year, health related issues have really done us in.
In addition to the normal and expected issues we face, as does every team, one that really created a problem for us was the ankle injury suffered by Harris when he stepped on the leg of a photographer. He simply was not the same in the 2nd half as his lateral mobility was impaired significantly. Why photographers are permitted to sit on the floor so close to the game action has always mystified me, and the incident yesterday was disastrous for us.
It's a shame that we had to deal with that kind of adversity because with Self we had a decent shot at another title. On the other hand it's possible that Self would not have coached again this tournament, and inevitably we'd have lost down the line before the Final 4. So between 2020 and Covid, and this year, health related issues have really done us in.
"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”
Glenn Reynolds
The following user(s) said Thank You: konza63, HawkErrant, boulderhawk
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- konza63
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- Moderator
-
- c'85 Towering toward the Blue
Less
More
- Posts: 2201
- Thank you received: 1273
1 year 1 month ago #30784
by konza63
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Per your closing, Peter, I had texted Eric (HawkErrant) the following earlier this afternoon:
Dammit to Hell.
The L yesterday will go on the shelf (the shelf of missed chances) along with the COVID year, et al. This one goes down as the “Self health absence” tourney.
Dammit to Hell.
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
The following user(s) said Thank You: HawkErrant
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- hairyhawk
-
- Offline
- Platinum Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 1187
- Thank you received: 677
1 year 1 month ago #30787
by hairyhawk
I know Corpus did some great work showing the unbelievable record HCBS teams have in 1 possession games. I do not put into a worth so many points as much as finding a way for his team to win that game. He does a magnificent job with that and I do believe the Jayhawks win that game if he is coaching but we will never know.
The following user(s) said Thank You: HawkErrant
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- newtonhawk
-
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 272
- Thank you received: 293
1 year 1 month ago #30798
by newtonhawk
For those who haven't seen it, Here is a
LINK to a LJW article by Matt Tait
that gives some insightful perspective on some of the intangibles that were likely present with Self's absence.
The following user(s) said Thank You: HawkErrant
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- hoshi
-
- Offline
- Platinum Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 439
- Thank you received: 663
1 year 1 month ago #30801
by hoshi
“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits”. Albert Einstein
His comment on his blood pressure was very telling. This suggests that the heart issue, presumed blockages relived by the stents, was/were not the only concerns of his health team.
“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits”. Albert Einstein
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.