×
Message from Dave..... Moderator Approval

Don't panic if your post doesn't appear immediately.

× Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball

Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage

And the inevitable question arises...

More
4 years 3 months ago #24521 by Kong
Is there a pattern of behavioral issues within KU men’s basketball program?

www2.kusports.com/news/2020/jan/22/board...y-president-concern/

Visualize Whirled Peas

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Share this page:

 

  • HawkErrant
  • HawkErrant's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • b82, g84 Lift the chorus...
More
4 years 3 months ago - 4 years 3 months ago #24524 by HawkErrant
I'm okay with the Regents doing their jobs. Notice they aren't just limiting things to Kansas.

KU Student Body President Tiara Floyd?

Looks like a grandstanding publicity hound.

When the student body president can cite the way in which the violence level of any of the high profile KU athletics programs significantly differs from that of the exceedingly low profile non-athlete but still highly stressed young men and women that make up the rest of the KU Student Body, she will have grounds to make a statement, even though her justifiable reasons for making one is questionable.

The fact that "Floyd felt that K-State instigated the brawl and didn’t believe De Sousa should be suspended" shows she is out of touch with the facts when she spoke.

Until she has the facts she needs to be quiet on the subject and stop grandstanding.

I'm left wondering how the LJW Sports staff ended up talking with her to begin with?

ADDENDUM: if the data supports her concerns, then it truly is something to be addressed, and the powers that be should. I still challenge any reasoning for her talking with the media about it. With the administration, yes. The media, no.

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Last Edit: 4 years 3 months ago by HawkErrant.
The following user(s) said Thank You: murphyslaw

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 3 months ago #24527 by Bayhawk

The end is nothing; the road is all.
-- Jules Michelet

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 3 months ago - 4 years 3 months ago #24528 by Kong
The point isn't whether or not she has any credibility, it is that the past few years have had one issue after another where it begets the question.

To be fair to the issue, there have been a lot of events going back years. Bar fights, allegations of sexual misconduct, BBGuns being shot at folks, fights between football and basketball players, etc.

I know that I am personally tired of it all and it takes a toll on my enjoyment of KU basketball. So to someone who isn't a fan, it must look like chaos. Then you have an actual event of chaos with the picture that will forever be in everyone's minds-eye of one of our players raising a chair in anger and it is only natural for credible and not so credible folks to ask the question.

Perhaps the real question is whether or not this is different or more actions then other programs not in comparison to the student body in general, though that is important too.

Visualize Whirled Peas
Last Edit: 4 years 3 months ago by Kong.
The following user(s) said Thank You: HawkErrant, Bayhawk

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • HawkErrant
  • HawkErrant's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • b82, g84 Lift the chorus...
More
4 years 3 months ago #24529 by HawkErrant

Bayhawk wrote: Simple deductive reasoning . . .[/url :P


RC


Even without the recent loss of Terry Jones to make Python more salient to me (honestly, I don’t know when MP isn’t salient to me), I *knew* where you were going with this, Bayhawk!

Bravo Zulu, Jayhawk!

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
The following user(s) said Thank You: Bayhawk

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • HawkErrant
  • HawkErrant's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • b82, g84 Lift the chorus...
More
4 years 3 months ago #24530 by HawkErrant

Kong wrote: The point isn't whether or not she has any credibility, it is that the past few years have had one issue after another where it begets the question.

To be fair to the issue, there have been a lot of events going back years. Bar fights, allegations of sexual misconduct, BBGuns being shot at folks, fights between football and basketball players, etc.

I know that I am personally tired of it all and it takes a toll on my enjoyment of KU basketball. So to someone who isn't a fan, it must look like chaos. Then you have an actual event of chaos with the picture that will forever be in everyone's minds-eye of one of our players raising a chair in anger and it is only natural for credible and not so credible folks to ask the question.

Perhaps the real question is whether or not this is different or more actions then other programs not in comparison to the student body in general, though that is important too.


Her credibility isn’t irrelevant because she is a KU voice that outsiders will note.

Beyond that, I agree, it’s tiring.

I think your ending question comparing programs is one that needs to be asked along with mine comparing intracampus groups. We seldom hear of non-game malfeasance by athletes in other schools as they simply aren’t news to most people beyond the locals and alums. Off court malfeasance by our guys is highly salient to us. It would be nice for some graduate students to study across both groups to provide a better picture of what’s real and what isn’t.

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 3 months ago - 4 years 3 months ago #24534 by CorpusJayhawk
This is a garbage article and I am ashamed for the LJW for letting this get by their editors. This is the stuff of blogs where standards are non-existent and any fool can bloviate to their ill-informed satisfaction. But for an actual media company with so-called journalistic standards...for shame.

Why am I so disgusted? Well to begin with, context is decisive. Framing the context of any communication sets the manner and source from which the reader derives meaning. The context of this article is rightfully stated early on; KU Student Body President Tiara Floyd said, “I definitely see a pattern of disciplinary problems happening.”

Oh really? In addition to context, for meaning to effectively and accurately be conveyed, there must be a common understanding of the definition of terms. She sees a "pattern". What is a pattern? A patter is "A series of events emanating from a common source related by a common cause" If you are claiming the many events we are all too familiar with and are cited seriatim in the article are from a common source related by a common cause, then you must be able to cite the common source and the common cause. No one will argue that there have been a series of events. I personally am quite disgusted with the frequency of various negative events surrounding KU basketball. It is wearisome to say the least. It diminishes my personal enjoyment of KU basketball.

Is it fair to ask if these events are related by a common source and cause? Absolutely! Not only fair, it is necessary. Is it reasonable to express an off the cuff opinion that there certainly is a possibility that "where their is smoke their must be fire"? Again, absolutely! But to make a propositional proclamation as strong as "I definitely see a pattern of disciplinary problems happening" is reckless and irresponsible. Perhaps she simply is not skilled in the concept of proper contextual framing and precise definitional usage. In fact, that may be the issue. But that is exactly why editors exist. Had she said, "there have been a series of events that certainly pose a perception that there could be a pattern" or something to that affect, fine. But when you say what she said, you are explicitly saying you have the information that allows you to draw a conclusion of a common source and cause. And when you make a proclamational statement, you necessarily need to cite the premises that under gird your conclusion. What is the source? What is the cause? Without answering those questions, you have thrown an unsupported proclamation out as red meat and leaving the reader to fill in the blanks by implication and assumption. In this particular case, it is almost red meat for the reader to say "there is a cancer on the presidency" meaning Coach Self and staff.

It is very possible that the seriatim events that have plagued KU basketball is simply luck of the draw and reflection of the current culture in elite college athletes. Without question, there needs to be a very serious self reflection and internal investigation into this possibility of a pattern. If there is not, Long and Girod should be removed for malpractice. But to jump all the way to proclaiming conclusions that can only come from informed understanding without citing the underlying information is simply garbage reporting.

I desperately want to get to the bottom of all the CRAP that has happened over the last 5 + years. And if that results in the conclusion that there is a "pattern" and the source is Self and the cause is corruption then so be it. We will deal with that. Whatever the results we can then deal effectively in an informed manner. But until then, articles like these only serve to provide inflammatory but truly meaningless input.

I admit, I tend toward the pollyanna viewpoint. I tend to (maybe wishfully) believe that the source is random and unrelated and the cause is the general culture among elite athletes. I am not saying I know that, I am only saying that is my general choice to believe until data indicates otherwise. In Self and KU I trust. But as Ronald Reagan said, "trust, but verify". One of my mantra's to my staff over the years has been "You can't make informed decisions without information." Often, my young staff were enthusiastic to aver their assessment under the misperception that it was actually a fully informed decision.

One other note. I completely appreciated Jay Bilas's article. I channel completely. I trust that KU, KSU and the Big 12 were sufficiently informed, properly motivated and capable of judging. Thus, I am completely satisfied with their decision. I could certainly nitpick this or that, but that would require a certain arrogance on my part to think my information and/or motives and/or my judgment was superior to their collective information, motives and judgment. I cannot muster that degree of arrogance, so I am very happy to submit to their decision. Not only that, I am extremely appreciative of their exigency and speed in getting to the decision. Time to move on.

Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
Last Edit: 4 years 3 months ago by CorpusJayhawk.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • HawkErrant
  • HawkErrant's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • b82, g84 Lift the chorus...
More
4 years 3 months ago #24536 by HawkErrant
LJW Publisher and Editor Chad Lawhorn is no friend of KU.

Pick a negative KU article from the last few years and the odds are he was also the author of it.

In this case, he was not, and frankly I was surprised... no, make that amazed. It's the first negative KU article I can recall reading in recent history that does not have his byline.

I'm bloody tired of him.

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 3 months ago #24538 by Bayhawk
At least for the fans,


--RC

The end is nothing; the road is all.
-- Jules Michelet

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Powered by Kunena Forum