×
Message from Dave..... Moderator Approval

Don't panic if your post doesn't appear immediately.

× Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball

Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage

No Senior game this year; B12T 3 seed

  • HawkErrant
  • HawkErrant's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • b82, g84 Lift the chorus...
More
6 years 8 months ago #21811 by HawkErrant
Vick won’t be back for Saturday’s game hosting Baylor.

m.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2019/ma...ys-senior-lagerald-/

Just the second time under Self there has not been one (2006-7 last time).

Article includes list of all Bill’s seniors over the years.

Also, based on what was reported in the article, and with ISU being dumped by WVU (by 15!) and OSU spoiling Baylor’s Senior game 67-64 last night, KU will be the 3 seed in the B12T. Looks like Texas will be the 6 seed and KU opponent to start the tourney.

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
The following user(s) said Thank You: JRhawk, murphyslaw

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Share this page:

 

More
6 years 8 months ago #21813 by NotOstertag
I think it would be nice if Self and the team somehow acknowledged Vick. If he's able to and wants to, I'd offer Vick the opportunity to record a quick video message that can be played for the fans in AFH on the scoreboard so that Vick could have an opportunity to thank the fans. If Vick can't/won't do that, I'd at least have the video team prepare a short video presentation of Vick highlights to thank him for his 4 years.

I've been highly critical of Vick, particularly during the last 2 seasons, but the guy still gave us (almost) 4 years and has earned SOMETHING for his contribution to the program.

"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
The following user(s) said Thank You: konza63, HawkErrant, Bayhawk, jayhawk969, murphyslaw, newtonhawk

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 8 months ago #21814 by JRhawk
IMHO, too bad that Vick isn't coming back for Senior game.
Strange Big 12 games last night.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 8 months ago #21815 by Illhawk
This is a strange tale. How much would most of us give to have a walk on or manager Senior Day in Allen. Ramp that up to a multi-year starter, probably the third best player on this years team and a contributor on a Final Four team.

Trying the draft made sense. Coming back humbled made sense. Self giving him another chance made sense. Playing well early and then not so much was at least consistent with the uneven play from prior seasons.

Then "leave of absence?" A sick grandparent or baby momma or other back home issue does not seem to lead to this. ( If he had a cousin facing long incarceration the papers would have it.)

This is just strange. I will say the team has played about the same without him. Good to great in Lawrence, elsewhere not so much . So I am easing away from the toxic teammate theory,

Does a kid blow Senior night and probable Second round draft because he won't go to class or because non jocks get to smoke weed without many consequences?

Or is he dealing with issues beyond anything but compassion?

Don't know, glad it's not my job to figure it out.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Bayhawk

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • HawkErrant
  • HawkErrant's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • b82, g84 Lift the chorus...
More
6 years 8 months ago #21816 by HawkErrant

NotOstertag wrote: I think it would be nice if Self and the team somehow acknowledged Vick. If he's able to and wants to, I'd offer Vick the opportunity to record a quick video message that can be played for the fans in AFH on the scoreboard so that Vick could have an opportunity to thank the fans. If Vick can't/won't do that, I'd at least have the video team prepare a short video presentation of Vick highlights to thank him for his 4 years.

I've been highly critical of Vick, particularly during the last 2 seasons, but the guy still gave us (almost) 4 years and has earned SOMETHING for his contribution to the program.

I'm in lockstep with you on every point, NotO, especially the stuff I bolded in your quote. Definitely the first, and the latter if he opts not to do so. He deserves to be recognized.


JRhawk wrote: IMHO, too bad that Vick isn't coming back for Senior game.
Strange Big 12 games last night.

I believe Vick deserves the opportunity, and it seems from the article that it is his choice to not attend... which makes me wonder about (1) just how serious his home issues are and (2) the status of his relationships with Self, the staff and especially his teammates? Creates a certain level on ambiguity about the +/- of his physically attending. Still, it's very sad he will not be here after putting almost 4 years of his life into being a Jayhawk and representing KU. I think he will regret missing it for the rest of his life. I just hope he finishes his degree, it would be a shame if he did not.

As to last night's games -- I didn't watch them, so can't comment on the strangeness of them, but I was surprised to see the results of them when I woke up this morning. Not surprised that WVU won at home on their Senior Night, but definitely surprised that they won by 15, 90-75 over a decent (now 20-10) Iowa State. And the Cowboys going into Baylor for the Bears' Senior Night and heading home with the W? Shaking my head on that one. Wow, just wow.:whistle:

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
The following user(s) said Thank You: JRhawk, jayhawk969

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 8 months ago #21817 by JRhawk
HE - I didn't watch last night's Big 12 games either - just meant the strange scores. I followed scores in general, mainly hoping for a Florida win over LSU - but alas they lost by 1 in OT. WVU led 54-33 at half and ISU didn't get much closer. Given that WVU removed starters Ahmad and Harris in early Feb, wouldn't have thought they would win another game. Maybe ISU was looking forward to the TT game. Hope the same isn't true for Baylor. Saturday should be interesting.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 8 months ago #21818 by NotOstertag
I've been hesitant to speculate much more about Vick's leave, especially in the light of Self and the team both respecting his privacy here, but with the lack of any news, I have what I think is a strong theory that would literally check all the boxes of an explanation: rehab.

That would explain several things including:
1.) erratic behavior going back a few years.
2.) sudden departure (finally hit bottom, needs to go NOW)
3.) inpatient program, likely 12 weeks keeps him out for the rest of the year
4.) confidentiality: buddies/teammates know he has a problem, Coach is supportive, realizes that it's a much bigger issue that sports, legally can't discuss the situation.

Let me just say, I really don't want to spread rumors, and this is fully conjecture. Nevertheless, the pieces/parts make sense, and I don't think I'm the only one who may have come to this conclusion.

If this is the case, I hope he beats it and gets his life in order and has a successful future. If this ISN'T the case, I still hope he gets his life in order and has a successful future.

"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 8 months ago #21819 by JoJoHawk
Or Bipolar crisis- conjecture.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 8 months ago #21820 by CorpusJayhawk
This team played less cohesive and team-oriented than any I can remember. My assessment of the causes are (in order of impact)

1. Youth
2. Lack of time together as a unit (transfers)
3. Injuries forcing changes
4. Vick
5. Lack of floor leadership

Youth — Come on, we are closing out the season with a team that is almost 65% of minutes from freshmen and 85% from 1st year Jayhawks. But that is not all of the youth and inexperience story. The other 15% of minutes from returning players were the two bench players from plast year. Not a single starter. Let’s say we had 85% of minutes were from newbies but the other 15% were Devonte’ and Udoka. That would be a horse of a different color. This is an ad hoc completely new team for all intents and purposes. Throw this team in against any other team that is thrown together ad hoc (a la the under 19 tournament) and they would dominate. But the rest of the Big 12 is not made up of similarly ad hoc teams.

Lack of Togetherness — Hpw many passes were checked or thrown away because a player cut a different way. How many fast break opportunities failed? How many plays were aborted or and to be reset because someone made the wrong cut, went under instead of over or failed to set the pick in the right place or any other of a myriad of mistakes? Time hanging out together may be nice for team chemistry but real team chemistry is forged by repetition on the court.

Injuries forcing change — And not just injuries. Losing Dok was a massive gut shot for this team forcing massive changes. Pulling the redshirt off of Agbaji forced massive changes. Finally realizing Vick was never going to get woke forced massive changes. This team has been more or less in flux all season.

Vick — Many here may disagree but the stats as well as my subjective assessment lead me to judge that Vick was a sugar in the gas tank. Vick would literally disappear for long stretches followed by completely ill-advised hero ball. He played the blind squirrel in a number of games and found the acorn of being hot from the arc. But even in those games the +/- was rarely if ever in his favor. He played hero ball almost exclusively. And when things weren’t going his way he disappeared. As the only senior that dynamic, in my judgment, was cancerous to this young team. I think we may have lost a few games early if Vick had not been allowed back but who knows what Agbaji would have done. I bet Self is absolutely ultra pissed at himself for the Vick decision to return. Without Vicks hero ball, this team may have gelled far earlier and guys like McCormack and Agbaji would have had more opportunity to grow. I realize this is my subjective assessment and I have no desire to speculate on Vick as a person or about his personal life or trials. I wish him only well. But as a Jayhawk in the court, he was problematic at best and a liability at worst.

Lack of floor leadership — This maybe should be higher on the list. This team has had extended periods of poor to horrible execution. Players miss shots. Players can get beat by faster players. Other teams can get hot and make contested shots. But execution is largely about team chemistry, focius, aggressiveness and not least of all floor leadership. Can you imagine the botched plays possession after possession with Devonte’ or Frank running the team? We had 9 straight possessions against Oklahoma where we failed to score. As best I could tell, 7 were failed execution or extremely ill-advised shot. Marcus is frustrating to me for a weird reason. He is the one that by my far from expert observation is most likely to execute properly his role in every play and every possession. But he can’t shoot so we benefit less from his consistent execution. He is really a heady player. He reminds me of a back court version of Landen Lucas. Landen was brilliant at execution he simply lacked superior offensive skill. McCormack seems to me to be a pretty heady player he just looks like he took speed before hitting the court. Mitch has come around this year and seems to be executing much better than last year but he is just simply undersized for what he is often asked to do. Devon, Grimes, Agbaji and Moore were wildly inconsistent at running plays and seeing the second and third option. They have far too often forced the first option without proper opening angles or positioning. Simply stated, this team has been one of the poorest executing teams and that is largely due to the guy with the ball in his hands. I love Dotson and think he is destined for greatness. He did some great things this year but floor leadership in terms of play execution was not one of them.

The good new or great news is, likely we get everyone back and they will be a year smarter, a year more together and a year stronger.

Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 8 months ago - 6 years 8 months ago #21821 by LKF_HAWK
Just read an article in the LJ World, and it says Vick still on track to graduate. HCBS’s comments sound like that of a parent who loves their kid and wants nothing but the best for them, but is showing them tough love.

While LV will miss Senior Day, if he indeed graduates, Kudos to him and best wishes in whatever he chooses to do.
Last Edit: 6 years 8 months ago by LKF_HAWK.
The following user(s) said Thank You: HawkErrant, Bayhawk

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 8 months ago #21822 by CorpusJayhawk
I am saddened that Vick will not be at senior night. While it is obvious, I have reservations about his overall effectiveness on the court, the young man spent 4 years in this program and did a lot to move the program along in one way or another. I am really glad to hear he is on track to graduate. His situation is obviously complicated but based on the public data alone, he surely has earned the privilege of enjoying the celebration of senior night.

Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
The following user(s) said Thank You: HawkErrant, LKF_HAWK, hairyhawk, DrJHawker

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Powered by Kunena Forum