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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
predictions for Kansas State game
- asteroid
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6 years 8 months ago #21529
by asteroid
Here's the scenario. If you look at each team's remaining games, Kansas State
is still projected to lose in Lawrence and Fort Worth, which would give them
a 13-5 conference record, while Texas Tech is projected to lose in Ames, which
would also give them a 13-5 conference record. Meanwhile, Kansas is projected
to win all of its remaining games, which would give the Jayhawks a 13-5 conference
record. So there is a path to a (shared) conference championship, and it's
actually a reasonable path, but hardly a sure thing. The typical inconsistency
is 11 points, and there is only one game among those three contenders with a
predicted margin in excess of that, so pretty much anything can happen.
Mathematically, Kansas could lose to Kansas State and still share the crown,
but that scenario requires the Wildcats to lose all three remaining games
while Kansas wins all three remaining games, along with a couple of losses
by Texas Tech, who is on a roll. The odds of that happening are next to
nothing. So the bottom line is that today's game is a must-win for Kansas.
Fortunately, Kansas is undefeated at home this season, the only Big 12 team
with an unblemished home record. Some people will undoubtedly look at
Saturday's futility and write off the Jayhawks. The negative trend has some
statistical significance to it, while the negative mental toughness rating
is marginally significant. In contrast, Kansas State has a strong positive
trend and mental toughness rating. Taken at face value, they predict a 1 point
win for Kansas State.
Most of the prognosticators have Kansas as the winner. The only naysayer is
Dunkel, who is predicting a 4 point loss for Kansas. The most optimistic
prediction comes from Real Time, who seems to be using a larger home court
advantage than all the other prognosticators, and has Kansas as a 9 point
favorite. I do wonder what Real Time is smoking, however, because the
predicted score is 80 to 71, for a total of 151 points, which is more than
either team averages, and over 10 points more for Kansas than the next
highest prediction.
Both Colley's and Whitlock's ratings are out-of-date, so the Texas Tech
debacle is not reflected in their more optimistic margins. ESPN's BPI
prediction is in line with Sagarin and Massey, while Greenfield and Vegas
have it closer to a one-possession game. Trim your fingernails to avoid
having something to bite.
But what about Baylor, you ask, given that they have the same conference
record as Kansas? Well, the Bears are projected to lose in Lawrence and
in Manhattan, finishing with an 11-7 record. Theoretically not out of it,
but definitely having a steeper hill to climb.
Greenfield Stats Comparison
===========================
Offensive Stats KSU KU Defensive Stats KSU KU
Points/Game 66.5 76.4 Opp Points/Game 59.3 70.6
Avg Score Margin +7.2 +5.7 Opp Effective FG % 48.0% 47.9%
Assist/Game 13.9 13.6 Off Rebounds/Gm 8.2 8.9
Total Rebouds/Gm 33.9 37.2 Def Rebounds/Gm 23.0 25.7
Effective FG % 50.1 53.6 Blocks/Game 2.0 3.7
Off Rebound % 27.3 27.6 Steals/Game 7.4 7.0
FTA/FGA 0.316 0.332 Personal Fouls/Gm 16.4 17.4
Turnover % 15.6% 16.4%
Common Opponents
================
There are nine common opponents, eight in conference plus Marquette, one of which
Kansas has already played twice (TCU), one of which Kansas State has already played
twice (Oklahoma State), and four of which both have played twice (Texas, Texas Tech,
est Virginia, Iowa State), in which case I will use only the home-home and road-road
permutations, plus the head-to-head in Manhattan, giving us sixteen scores to compare:
KU +9 Mar neutral ( +9 neutral court)
KSU -12 Mar on road ( -8 neutral court)
KU +21 KSU at home (+17 neutral court)
KU +2 UT at home ( -2 neutral court) KU -10 UT on road ( -6 neutral court)
KSU -20 UT at home (-24 neutral court) KSU +7 UT on road (+11 neutral court)
KU +26 KSU at home (+22 neutral court) KU -13 KSU at home (-17 neutral court)
KU -29 TTU on road (-25 neutral court) KU +16 TTU at home (+12 neutral court)
KSU -6 TTU on road ( -2 neutral court) KSU +13 TTU at home ( +9 neutral court)
KU -19 KSU at home (-23 neutral court) KU +7 KSU at home ( +3 neutral court)
KU +25 WVU at home (+21 neutral court) KU -1 WVU on road ( +3 neutral court)
KSU +2 WVU at home ( -2 neutral court) KSU +14 WVU on road (+18 neutral court)
KU +27 KSU at home (+23 neutral court) KU -11 KSU at home (-15 neutral court)
KU -17 ISU on road (-13 neutral court) KU +4 ISU at home ( 0 neutral court)
KSU +1 ISU on road ( +5 neutral court) KSU -14 ISU at home (-18 neutral court)
KU -14 KSU at home (-18 neutral court) KU +22 KSU at home (+18 neutral court)
KU +7 OU at home ( +3 neutral court)
KSU +13 OU on road (+17 neutral court)
KU -10 KSU at home (-14 neutral court)
KU +9 TCU at home ( +5 neutral court) KU +5 TCU on road ( +9 neutral court)
KSU +10 TCU at home ( +6 neutral court) KSU +10 TCU at home ( +6 neutral court)
KU +3 KSU at home ( -1 neutral court) KU +7 KSU at home ( +3 neutral court)
KU +12 OSU at home ( +8 neutral court) KU +12 OSU at home ( +8 neutral court)
KSU +18 OSU on road (+22 neutral court) KSU +39 OSU at home (+35 neutral court)
KU -10 KSU at home (-14 neutral court) KU -23 KSU at home (-27 neutral court)
KU +5 BU on road ( +9 neutral court)
KSU +7 BU on road (+11 neutral court)
KU +2 KSU at home ( -2 neutral court)
KU -7 KSU on road ( -3 neutral court)
KU +1 KSU at home ( -3 neutral court)
Nine of the comparisons favor Kansas, while seven favor Kansas State. There are some
fairly large differences, but the average is a single point in favor of Kansas. The
scatter is a whopping 16.3 points. Lots of inconsistent play here.
Players to Watch
================
most minutes Barry Brown (guard)
most points Barry Brown (guard)
most rebounds Dean Wade (forward)
most assists Kamau Stokes (guard)
most steals Barry Brown (guard)
most blocks Makol Mawien (forward)
most turnovers Barry Brown (guard)
most fouls Makol Mawien (forward)
Guard Cartier Diarra is out with a hand injury. Stokes apparently has turf toe,
which can be a lingering injury, but won't keep him from playing, though it might
slow him down a bit, as would Garrett's high ankle sprain. Wade is playing,
which means that new foot injury during the Iowa State game must not have been
too bad.
20-7 21-6
Margin Predicted Win Prb Kansas Kansas State
Predictor points Score percent Rating SOS Rating SOS
==================== ====== ========= ======= ============= =============
Sagarin Overall +5.35 67 62 # 11 # 1 # 21 # 35
Sagarin Predictor +5.89 67 61 70.2 # 11 # 1 # 23 # 35
Sagarin Golden Mean +5.79 67 61 # 9 # 1 # 18 # 35
Sagarin Recent Games +1.52 65 64 # 28 # 1 # 22 # 35
Sagarin Eigenvector +6.55 68 61 73
Massey +5.00 68 63 68 # 18 # 2 # 19 # 28
Pomeroy +4.33 66 62 # 18 # 1 # 25 # 40
Greenfield +3.50 68.5 65 # 15 # 5 # 25 # 27
Dunkel -4.00 69 73 # 12 # 27
Vegas (via Dunkel) +3.50 68 65
Dolphin Predictive +3.28 66 63 61.8 # 19 # 7 # 23 # 32
Real Time +9.00 80 71 # 7 # 1 # 22 # 50
Seven Overtimes +2.00 69 67 73 # 5 # 1 # 41 # 21
DPPI +1.30 69.5 68 # 21 # 1 # 17 # 45
ESPN BPI +5.70 71.5 # 17 # 1 # 29 # 38
Whitlock +7.48 # 11 # 1 # 27 # 30
Colley Matrix +8.59 # 5 # 1 # 15 # 23
NCAA NET # 15 # 10
common opponents +1.00
==================== ====== ========= ======= ============ ============
average +4.2 68.4 64.7
scatter 3.1 3.6 3.8
Here is Kansas' season; the season record projection remains at 23-8; there
are no more projected losses, though the game in Norman is effectively a
toss-up:
SITE OPPONENT SCORE PREDIC ERROR PROB.
---- ----------------------------- ------- ------ ----- -----
NEUT # 5 Michigan State 92 87 -4.55 +9.55
HOME # 90 Vermont 84 68 +14.13 +1.87
HOME #166 Louisiana 89 76 +20.62 -7.62
NEUT # 17 Marquette 77 68 +1.67 +7.33
NEUT # 7 Tennessee 87 81 -1.44 +7.44
HOME #105 Stanford 90 84 +15.61 -9.61
HOME # 45 Wofford 72 47 +9.40 +15.60
HOME # 61 New Mexico State 63 60 +12.20 -9.20
HOME # 19 Villanova 74 71 +5.15 -2.15
HOME #211 South Dakota 89 53 +23.61 +12.39
AWAY # 48 Arizona State 76 80 +3.90 -7.90
HOME #163 Eastern Michigan 87 63 +20.46 +3.54
HOME # 28 Oklahoma 70 63 +6.78 +0.22
AWAY # 14 Iowa State 60 77 -2.22 -14.78
HOME # 36 TCU 77 68 +7.89 +1.11
AWAY # 38 Baylor 73 68 +2.11 +2.89
HOME # 27 Texas 80 78 +6.47 -4.47
AWAY # 89 West Virginia 64 65 +7.76 -8.76
HOME # 14 Iowa State 80 76 +4.06 -0.06
AWAY # 6 Kentucky 63 71 -5.81 -2.19
AWAY # 27 Texas 63 73 +0.19 -10.19
HOME # 8 Texas Tech 79 63 +2.01 +13.99
AWAY # 23 Kansas State 67 74 -0.40 -6.60
HOME # 91 Oklahoma State 84 72 +14.18 -2.18
AWAY # 36 TCU 82 77 +1.61 +3.39
HOME # 89 West Virginia 78 53 +14.04 +10.96
AWAY # 8 Texas Tech 62 91 -4.27 -24.73
HOME # 23 Kansas State +5.88 0.702
AWAY # 91 Oklahoma State +7.90 0.773
AWAY # 28 Oklahoma +0.50 0.519
HOME # 38 Baylor +8.39 0.767
Here is Kansas State's season; note the projected losses in Lawrence and
in Fort Worth:
SITE OPPONENT SCORE PREDIC ERROR PROB.
---- ----------------------------- ------- ------ ----- -----
HOME #344 Kennesaw State 56 41 +33.18 -18.18
HOME #303 Denver 64 56 +26.69 -18.69
NEUT #251 Eastern Kentucky 95 68 +20.28 +6.72
NEUT #130 Pennsylvania 64 48 +11.69 +4.31
NEUT # 88 Missouri 82 67 +8.09 +6.91
HOME #149 Lehigh 77 58 +16.67 +2.33
AWAY # 17 Marquette 71 83 -4.21 -7.79
AWAY #119 Tulsa 46 47 +7.67 -8.67
HOME #126 Georgia State 71 59 +14.51 -2.51
HOME #131 Southern Miss 55 51 +15.08 -11.08
HOME # 94 Vanderbilt 69 58 +11.73 -0.73
HOME #144 George Mason 59 58 +16.16 -15.16
HOME # 27 Texas 47 67 +3.73 -23.73
AWAY # 8 Texas Tech 57 63 -7.01 +1.01
HOME # 89 West Virginia 71 69 +11.30 -9.30
AWAY # 14 Iowa State 58 57 -4.96 +5.96
AWAY # 28 Oklahoma 74 61 -2.24 +15.24
HOME # 36 TCU 65 55 +5.15 +4.85
HOME # 8 Texas Tech 58 45 -0.73 +13.73
AWAY # 75 Texas A&M 53 65 +4.06 -16.06
AWAY # 91 Oklahoma State 75 57 +5.16 +12.84
HOME # 11 Kansas 74 67 +0.40 +6.60
AWAY # 38 Baylor 70 63 -0.63 +7.63
AWAY # 27 Texas 71 64 -2.55 +9.55
HOME # 14 Iowa State 64 78 +1.32 -15.32
AWAY # 89 West Virginia 65 51 +5.02 +8.98
HOME # 91 Oklahoma State 85 46 +11.44 +27.56
AWAY # 11 Kansas -5.88 0.298
HOME # 38 Baylor +5.65 0.669
AWAY # 36 TCU -1.13 0.463
HOME # 28 Oklahoma +4.04 0.633
The following user(s) said Thank You: HawkErrant, sasnak, hairyhawk, Bayhawk, gorillahawk, Socalhawk, porthawk, newtonhawk
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6 years 8 months ago #21531
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
asteroid, I can’t believe you brought up a 3-way on this family site! For shame, sir, for shame!
(Aside: What? He wrote what? Ohhh...)
Never mind, asteroid, I clearly need more coffee.
Thanks for the optimistic outlook!
May it come to pass...
(Aside: What? He wrote what? Ohhh...)
Never mind, asteroid, I clearly need more coffee.
Thanks for the optimistic outlook!
May it come to pass...
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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- Wheatstate Gal
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6 years 8 months ago - 6 years 8 months ago #21533
by Wheatstate Gal
HE-
You are becoming a bad boy a la my Brother Bay.
I’ll take whatever scenarios work for us. I’ll gladly take a tie.....although as I believe NotO mentioned, 15 won’t have the same feel as some others.
I really want #15 for a tee shirt. I fiddle-diddled around waiting on a national championship tee, and missed out on 14!!!
What a maroon.
You are becoming a bad boy a la my Brother Bay.
I’ll take whatever scenarios work for us. I’ll gladly take a tie.....although as I believe NotO mentioned, 15 won’t have the same feel as some others.
I really want #15 for a tee shirt. I fiddle-diddled around waiting on a national championship tee, and missed out on 14!!!
What a maroon.
Last Edit: 6 years 8 months ago by Wheatstate Gal.
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- LSHawk
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6 years 8 months ago #21540
by LSHawk
I had made peace with the potential end of the streak. It is going to happen sometime. It might as well happen this year (lots of good excuses); then, we can start a new streak. That said, even if we ultimately fail, let it not be at the hands of KSU... in our house. That would be particularly painful, even humiliating.
Play hard and proud. Fans scream loud. Invoke the spirit of Phog.
RCJHGKU
Play hard and proud. Fans scream loud. Invoke the spirit of Phog.
RCJHGKU
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- AZhawk87
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6 years 8 months ago #21541
by AZhawk87
I will take grief I know, but I for one think the streak has taken on too big a life of it's own, and it's time to end. Being the hunted, and starting each season saying "I hope we're not the one to end it", is less exciting now than saying "last year it ended, and dang it we're going to take it back by force."
I'd like to see KU destroy the league next year and prove that while we had a blip, the conference still goes through KU.
Let's spoil the Kitties ride tonight!
I'd like to see KU destroy the league next year and prove that while we had a blip, the conference still goes through KU.
Let's spoil the Kitties ride tonight!
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6 years 8 months ago #21543
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
I understand the sentiments of you both, LS and AZ.
I am sanguine at this point about the likelihood of not winning it this year, but would still love to see them win out, even if KSU and/or TT manage to finish ahead of them.
Starting tonight — skin them cats!
Or, as we are wont to say in the Phog — “Beak ‘em!”
I am sanguine at this point about the likelihood of not winning it this year, but would still love to see them win out, even if KSU and/or TT manage to finish ahead of them.
Starting tonight — skin them cats!
Or, as we are wont to say in the Phog — “Beak ‘em!”
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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6 years 8 months ago - 6 years 8 months ago #21547
by LKF_HAWK
Let’s beat the kitties..play with pride Jayhawks protect the venerable AFH home court from hese Flint Hill marauders..
I won’t be able to watch the game, but will be pulling for the Hawks.. RCB’ers let’s help the Hawks bring home a much needed W!!
I won’t be able to watch the game, but will be pulling for the Hawks.. RCB’ers let’s help the Hawks bring home a much needed W!!
Last Edit: 6 years 8 months ago by LKF_HAWK.
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