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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
After 15 years, Self/William comparison from the Star
- hoshi
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7 years 7 months ago #18334
by hoshi
“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits”. Albert Einstein
"Overall record: Self 447-95 (.826 winning percentage), Williams 414-101 (.805)
NCAA Tournament appearances: Self 15-for-15, Williams 14-for-14
NCAA Tournament record: Self 37-13 (.740), Williams 34-14 (.708)
Elite Eights: Williams 4-1, Self 3-5
Final Fours: Williams 4, Self 3
National championships: Self 1, Williams 0
Conference championships: Self 14, Williams 9
Conference tournament championships: Self 8, Williams 4
Seasons ranked No. 1 in AP poll: Williams 7, Self 6
Consensus All-America players: Self 5 (Simien, Collins, Robinson, Mason, Graham), Williams 4 (5 times): LaFrentz 2, Pierce, Gooden, Collison
Conference players of year: Self 5 (Simien, Marcus Morris, Robinson, Mason, Graham), Williams 5 (Vaughn, LaFrentz 2, Gooden, Collison)
Winner: By the margin of a national championship, Self"
Thoughts?
NCAA Tournament appearances: Self 15-for-15, Williams 14-for-14
NCAA Tournament record: Self 37-13 (.740), Williams 34-14 (.708)
Elite Eights: Williams 4-1, Self 3-5
Final Fours: Williams 4, Self 3
National championships: Self 1, Williams 0
Conference championships: Self 14, Williams 9
Conference tournament championships: Self 8, Williams 4
Seasons ranked No. 1 in AP poll: Williams 7, Self 6
Consensus All-America players: Self 5 (Simien, Collins, Robinson, Mason, Graham), Williams 4 (5 times): LaFrentz 2, Pierce, Gooden, Collison
Conference players of year: Self 5 (Simien, Marcus Morris, Robinson, Mason, Graham), Williams 5 (Vaughn, LaFrentz 2, Gooden, Collison)
Winner: By the margin of a national championship, Self"
Thoughts?
“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits”. Albert Einstein
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- HawkErrant
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- b82, g84 Lift the chorus...
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7 years 7 months ago - 7 years 7 months ago #18335
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
I think the final assessment is correct in favoring Self but ridiculous in limiting the margin of difference to winning an NC. Winning the NC is the hammer shattering any case for Roy. Bill matched or exceeded Roy in every category except AP #1 rankings (trailed by 1) and Final Four appearances/Elite 8 wins (Bill trailed Roy by 1 here, but also got to the Elite 8 three more times than Roy did). And when it comes to conference regular season and tournament titles, the blowout of Roy at Kansas is complete.
The NC and conference regular season and tournament titles weigh the scale so heavily in Bill’s favor that the contest is not even close.
IMO the author is a Roy over Bill fan, and that is fine, but don’t let that — or Roy’s subsequent success at UNC, this is a Kansas comparison— bias the analysis. Self clearly has had the greater success at Kansas, hands down. As had been the case when they have met on the court, history favors Bill over Roy.
Roy was great at KU, and I am grateful for his service On The Hill, but Bill was greater.
And if Bill stays another 15 at KU, I expect he will either catch or pass Roy in NCs over that 30 year span, despite not having the UNC recruiting advantage.
The NC and conference regular season and tournament titles weigh the scale so heavily in Bill’s favor that the contest is not even close.
IMO the author is a Roy over Bill fan, and that is fine, but don’t let that — or Roy’s subsequent success at UNC, this is a Kansas comparison— bias the analysis. Self clearly has had the greater success at Kansas, hands down. As had been the case when they have met on the court, history favors Bill over Roy.
Roy was great at KU, and I am grateful for his service On The Hill, but Bill was greater.
And if Bill stays another 15 at KU, I expect he will either catch or pass Roy in NCs over that 30 year span, despite not having the UNC recruiting advantage.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Last Edit: 7 years 7 months ago by HawkErrant.
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- RobS
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7 years 7 months ago #18336
by RobS
Mongo just pawn in game of life.
One error: Williams was not 14 for 14 in NCAA tournament appearances because he missed the tournament in his first season due to probation. Or was the author giving him credit for an appearance since the probation wasn't his fault, and/or figuring that he would have made the tournament if not on probation?
Mongo just pawn in game of life.
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- porthawk
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7 years 7 months ago - 7 years 7 months ago #18337
by porthawk
Rob, b/c KU wasn't eligible to make the tournament in Williams's first year (1989; and it wasn't because of him), the author isn't including that in his statistics. In the 14 years that KU was eligible to make the tournament under Roy Williams (his 2nd through 15th seasons), it did, in fact, make the tournament.
Last Edit: 7 years 7 months ago by porthawk.
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