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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
One-and-done might become "two-or-none" in Big East.
- NotOstertag
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7 years 5 months ago #17821
by NotOstertag
"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
www.espn.co.uk/mens-college-basketball/s...eplace-1-done-2-none
Some good ideas here. Make a kid commit to a 2 year college career, or don't bother coming at all. Also setting up an "elite player unit" to provide extra guidance and management for kids who have a realistic chance of making the NBA.
Supposedly something similar is being discussed by the Pac 12.
Some good ideas here. Make a kid commit to a 2 year college career, or don't bother coming at all. Also setting up an "elite player unit" to provide extra guidance and management for kids who have a realistic chance of making the NBA.
Supposedly something similar is being discussed by the Pac 12.
"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
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- HawkErrant
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7 years 5 months ago - 7 years 5 months ago #17826
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
The EPU sounds promising.
Everything else, not so much unless and until the NBA and the Players Union get on board with it.
Two or none is otherwise toothless. Kid wants to leave after one, he will, and the first school that tries to stop him will get the whole coaches leaving phenomenon dragged into court — and the school, conference and NCAA will lose.
Where the schools and their appointed regulators CAN be proactive is to forget the crap about a HS player declaring for the draft forfeiting his eligibility.
The whole definition of “amateur” needs to be revised. In this respect, a kid entering the NBA draft at ANY TIME should have no impact on his college eligibility. NONE. Even if a kid gets drafted, he should be able to change his mind and opt to go to school instead without effect on his eligibility (unlikely to happen, I know, but want to be even handed in treatment of all prospective student-athletes). And frankly, if a guy didn’t get drafted, but then tried out and made a team but then got cut and couldn’t get on with another NBA squad, I would still allow him to retain his eligibility once he was no longer playing for pay. The college experience could be just what he needs to improve his skills for another shot when he graduates... or it could show him he probably won’t make it, and give him a shot at an education that he can work into a post-hoops career.
The NCAA really needs to start living up to its claim and looking out for the student-athlete at least as much, if not more, than its member schools. Work on the eligibility issue, and then work with the NBA & NBAPA on getting a baseball like agreement in place.
Everything else, not so much unless and until the NBA and the Players Union get on board with it.
Two or none is otherwise toothless. Kid wants to leave after one, he will, and the first school that tries to stop him will get the whole coaches leaving phenomenon dragged into court — and the school, conference and NCAA will lose.
Where the schools and their appointed regulators CAN be proactive is to forget the crap about a HS player declaring for the draft forfeiting his eligibility.
The whole definition of “amateur” needs to be revised. In this respect, a kid entering the NBA draft at ANY TIME should have no impact on his college eligibility. NONE. Even if a kid gets drafted, he should be able to change his mind and opt to go to school instead without effect on his eligibility (unlikely to happen, I know, but want to be even handed in treatment of all prospective student-athletes). And frankly, if a guy didn’t get drafted, but then tried out and made a team but then got cut and couldn’t get on with another NBA squad, I would still allow him to retain his eligibility once he was no longer playing for pay. The college experience could be just what he needs to improve his skills for another shot when he graduates... or it could show him he probably won’t make it, and give him a shot at an education that he can work into a post-hoops career.
The NCAA really needs to start living up to its claim and looking out for the student-athlete at least as much, if not more, than its member schools. Work on the eligibility issue, and then work with the NBA & NBAPA on getting a baseball like agreement in place.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Last Edit: 7 years 5 months ago by HawkErrant.
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- bklynhawk
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7 years 5 months ago #17827
by bklynhawk
Sounds like a possible step in the right direction. The MLB model could help by either letting them go pro from high school or have to wait until after their junior or senior year to go pro. That would take away the very top talent from college, but would remove some/all of the chaos for the players and schools.
This article from last year covers what would change and what different college coaches think about going the MLB route.
www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/new...olve-the-big-issues/
>OR<
There might be more kids going this route (academy then NBA)
www.eurosport.com/basketball/simons-skip...o6686031/story.shtml
This article from last year covers what would change and what different college coaches think about going the MLB route.
www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/new...olve-the-big-issues/
>OR<
There might be more kids going this route (academy then NBA)
www.eurosport.com/basketball/simons-skip...o6686031/story.shtml
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- Kong
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7 years 5 months ago #17828
by Kong
Visualize Whirled Peas
influence to a different group.
I can only see two ways this gets any better and one will never happen.
Either go the way of baseball and follow that model or bring back freshmen ineligibility. The latter would fix it with the least amount of legal hurdles, but will never be reinstated.
I can only see two ways this gets any better and one will never happen.
Either go the way of baseball and follow that model or bring back freshmen ineligibility. The latter would fix it with the least amount of legal hurdles, but will never be reinstated.
Visualize Whirled Peas
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- NotOstertag
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7 years 5 months ago #17829
by NotOstertag
"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
I'm ok with a kid testing the draft, but the issue arises when it comes to hiring agents.
Once you hire an agent, it's totally legal for an agent to advance you money if he feels that he'll get it back later. So if a kid decides to enter the draft and he's a likely top pick, it's reasonable to assume that many agents will say, "here's a hundred grand right now, and we'll settle up when you get your multi-million dollar signing bonus.
From the kid's perspective, it could be argued that he doesn't NEED an agent to enter the draft since the GMs will make selections based on scouts and how a kid does at the combine.
But that's only half of the conversation. If you're an agent you're looking at a kid worth millions of dollars and you want your piece of the earnings. There's also a few dozen OTHER agents who want the same thing. How do you incentivize a kid to sign with you? Money.
It would be nice if the Elite Players Unit acted as an "agent" for the kid initially, and maybe even acted as a clearinghouse for agents. Nevertheless, anybody can be an agent, and I don't know how the NCAA or anybody else could regulate somebody who wants to represent somebody else.
And like somebody else said, it's only good if the NBA cooperates, which they have no incentive to do. If a kid wants to leave in a year, I suppose the worst the college could do is set up the scholarship so that if the kid leaves early, he has to retroactively pay for his tuition, housing, and any other expenses. Still, even if it was $100k (travel, uniforms, shoes), it wouldn't stop a kid who was going to sign for a few million.
Once you hire an agent, it's totally legal for an agent to advance you money if he feels that he'll get it back later. So if a kid decides to enter the draft and he's a likely top pick, it's reasonable to assume that many agents will say, "here's a hundred grand right now, and we'll settle up when you get your multi-million dollar signing bonus.
From the kid's perspective, it could be argued that he doesn't NEED an agent to enter the draft since the GMs will make selections based on scouts and how a kid does at the combine.
But that's only half of the conversation. If you're an agent you're looking at a kid worth millions of dollars and you want your piece of the earnings. There's also a few dozen OTHER agents who want the same thing. How do you incentivize a kid to sign with you? Money.
It would be nice if the Elite Players Unit acted as an "agent" for the kid initially, and maybe even acted as a clearinghouse for agents. Nevertheless, anybody can be an agent, and I don't know how the NCAA or anybody else could regulate somebody who wants to represent somebody else.
And like somebody else said, it's only good if the NBA cooperates, which they have no incentive to do. If a kid wants to leave in a year, I suppose the worst the college could do is set up the scholarship so that if the kid leaves early, he has to retroactively pay for his tuition, housing, and any other expenses. Still, even if it was $100k (travel, uniforms, shoes), it wouldn't stop a kid who was going to sign for a few million.
"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
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- HawkErrant
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7 years 5 months ago #17830
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Actually that could be about the only way for the NCAA to indirectly force the NBA to change the OAD rule. It might be the only real leverage they could use to eliminate OADs. And the beauty of it is that whether the NBA did anything or not, it would solve the OAD problem for the NCAA and its member institutions. Players who truly believe they are ready would just skip school all together and either go NBA, G league or overseas. And the NBA, without its unpaid for unofficial minor league that is NCAA Men’s basketball would actually have to work on building a better G league.
Of course, the NCAA would want to up the number of scholarships per year back up to at least 16 (wasn’t it 18 once?) to make up for the loss of annually available talent to each program that would come with forcing freshmen to sit a year. They should also ensure that players still had 5 years to play 4, essentially making the freshman year a redshirt year. Players that graduate in 4 or less could stay for grad school or try their luck in the pros.
You know, Kong, it is a rather draconian move, but if the NBA doesn’t work with the NCAA to do something soon, it may just be the only option left for the NCAA.
Not gonna happen, though.
We now return you to your normal reality.
Of course, the NCAA would want to up the number of scholarships per year back up to at least 16 (wasn’t it 18 once?) to make up for the loss of annually available talent to each program that would come with forcing freshmen to sit a year. They should also ensure that players still had 5 years to play 4, essentially making the freshman year a redshirt year. Players that graduate in 4 or less could stay for grad school or try their luck in the pros.
You know, Kong, it is a rather draconian move, but if the NBA doesn’t work with the NCAA to do something soon, it may just be the only option left for the NCAA.
Not gonna happen, though.
We now return you to your normal reality.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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