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So we can clinch on Saturday...

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6 years 2 months ago #16659 by NotOstertag
Just in case anybody hasn't done the math, if we win on Saturday we clinch at least a share of the title.

I like our chances.

"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot

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6 years 2 months ago #16661 by JhawkMom
I absolutely do also. Texas Tech has been brow beaten their last few games. I have complete faith in our guys. They have tasted what defeat feels like and I'm sure they didn't like it. They won't let this one slip away!!!! It will be an exciting game

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6 years 2 months ago #16662 by HawkErrant
Yep!

Link to standings, remaining Big 12 schedules and analysis

As I reminded konza63, no Self team has ever been swept in Big 12 play (Tech and OSU), and KU has not lost a Senior Night game (Texas) in an eternity. Being a huge fan of tradition, I am very optimistic our boys will soon clinch #14.

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"

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6 years 2 months ago #16665 by NotOstertag
LOTS of ways to look at it.

The simple story: win Saturday, clinch at least a tie, and have to win one of the remaining games to win outright.

The more complex stories:
-KU can still get to 14 wins if we go 3-0. Nobody else can reach 14.
-KU needs to go 2-1 to get to 13 wins. Tech needs to go 3-0.
-KU's magic number is 2 (up one with 3 left), but we we can pick up the net equivalent of 2 games on Saturday in that equation.
-In the Jim Carey "so you're saying there's a chance" department: KSU and WVU are the only other teams not eliminated mathematically from the race. It's theoretically possible for KSU and WVU to get to 12 wins, which COULD win it if KU and Tech both collapse completely.
-Using the "Bill Self" ranking system (get 1 point for every win, -1 point for every home loss), KU is in 2nd place with 9 net points and Tech is at 10 points since they're 7-0 at home (3-5 on the road).

I'm going with the simple math...win on Saturday.

"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
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6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #16666 by konza63
I was very pleased to see that TT lost. It gives us a little "room for error."

At the same time, that can be deceptive, and the last thing we want is for our guys to have the above mentality on Saturday.

I still believe the TT game is super important. Reason: We still have to go to Stillwater ourselves, where TT just lost, and Self and his squads rarely do well there. We do not want to see a scenario in which KU loses Saturday, TT wins out (though they still have to go to WVU), and KU is in a "win or lose the title" mode in Stillwater. Best scenario of all is beat TT and UT, and OSU is relatively meaningless (perhaps outright vs. shared title or not even that on the line).

Bottom line: Saturday, ultimately, could still be a must-win game for the good guys in pursuit of #14.

Get 'er done, boys...

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by konza63.
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6 years 2 months ago #16668 by NotOstertag
Agree 1000%. Last night Tech was obviously hobbled by Keenan Evans' injury. That might also be the case on Saturday, but they know this two, and they will have had a few more days to adapt, and possibly get Evans' foot fixed up a little.

OSU beat us once, and Texas CAN beat us (they beat Tech in Austin). There are no guarantees. Saturday is a HUGE opportunity and the guys need to recognize it as such. I have a feeling that they're being reminded of this.

"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
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6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #16669 by HawkErrant
konza63 wrote: Bottom line: Saturday, ultimately, could still be a must-win game for the good guys in pursuit of #14.

I agree with your bottom line, konza.

I'll go even further and say that the TT game is going to prove to be *the* critical game the rest of the way, it's that much of a "must win" fulcrum point for our Jayhawks.

Win it and no other wins are required for at least a share of #14.
Lose it, and *EVERY* game after it falls into the "must win" category just to ensure at least a tie with Tech in case they don't lose again.

If Tech wins its last 3 (against KU in Lubbock, where Tech is undefeated extending back into last season; against WVU in Morgantown, and finally closing out against TCU in Lubbock), KU must defeat Texas on Senior Night and OSU in Stillwater (where Self has his only road losing record in Big 12 conference play @4-6) in order to tie Tech for the title.

In KU's favor is Tech (3-5 on the road in Big 12 play this year) @WVU (5-2 at home in Big 12 play, 12-3 overall at home and seemingly playing well again), but the 2 home games in Lubbock have to be considered as being in Tech's favor (even though I like KU's chances there). Also in KU's favor is that even though Tech's injured All Big 12 candidate PG and leading scorer Keenan Evans played against OSU and will almost certainly play against KU on Saturday, he did not play well at all against OSU last night, a sign that his toe injury is really bothering him. He even left the game for a while last night to get his injured toe tended to before returning, but was still only a shadow of his pre-injury self. We all would love to be able to look back and say KU won at Lubbock, and won against a Tech with its best but injured player playing well. But we have all seen far too many instances where injury and what not hurt KU's chances, so we have to hope that KU can take advantage of what today looks like a golden opportunity to catch Tech at home with Evans still not up to his high standard.

We know the history of Self's KU teams - never swept in the regular season (TT and OSU this year still have the chance to break that record) and haven't lost on Senior Night (KU hasn't lost the Senior game since March 1983, Ted Owens last season, 34 years running). But we have also seen KU lose in AFH not once but 3 times this year (currently 13-3 with only the Senior Night game against Texas left), something that has not happened since Roy's 1998-99 squad went 10-3 in AFH.

So AFH has not been secure this year, and both TT and OSU played very well in beating us earlier this year, so they certainly have good chances to make history by sweeping.

The way Texas has been playing I really do not see them beating KU in AFH, but nothing is certain. So KU absolutely needs to win at Lubbock on Saturday so the guys can enter the last two games able to play more relaxed but still with the urgency of (1) extending the Senior Night winning streak to 35 to send Devonté and Svi out on high notes and (2) winning the title all for themselves.

So, while losing at Tech on Saturday would not be the end of their chances for #14, winning secures #14 and history, and means a lot more fun playing out the regular season.

Here's to our guys having their best game of the season with the chips on the line!

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by HawkErrant.

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6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #16670 by HawkErrant
Continuing with my earlier thoughts...

A KU loss on Saturday not only leaves Tech alive in the race, it also leaves KSU and WVU with the slightest windows of opportunity to forge ties for the conference title. Consider this scenario.

KU (11-4) loses to Tech, beats Texas in AFH then loses to OSU to end the season 12-6

Tech (10-5) beats KU, loses to WVU then beats TCU in Lubbock to end the season 12-6

KSU (9-6) beats OU in Norman, beats TCU in Fort Worth and beats BU in Manhattan to end the season 12-6

WVU (9-6) beats ISU and Tech in Morgantown and beats Texas in Austin to end the season 12-6

I'm pretty sure that the odds of that scenario playing out are not good, but they are not an impossibility.

Of course, there is also a scenario were KU loses all 3 games to finish 11-7, Tech goes 1-2 to finish 11-7, and WVU and/or KSU win out to win at least a share of the Big 12 title with each other, if not the title outright if the other loses a game, at 12-6.

So here's to our guys scuttling it all by winning Saturday in Lubbock and then sending D&Svi out with a Senior Night victory and sole possession of the 2017-18 Big 12 Conference title.
#14StraightTitles?

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by HawkErrant.
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6 years 2 months ago #16671 by KMT
Kind of eerie that Self thought 13-5 would take the conference this year.

Beat Tech and Texas, lose at Stinkywater = 13-5
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6 years 2 months ago #16674 by HawkErrant
Seems Coach just might know a little about what he talks about... ;)

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"

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6 years 2 months ago #16676 by NotOstertag
Self is a basketball genius, but that guess wasn't necessarily a demonstration of it. On average we've won it with 14 wins. In the years that we won outright with 14, 13 would have been good for a share. We shared it once with 14 wins vs. KSU in 2013.

I don't have all the numbers in front of me, but 14 is usually enough (it's also 9 home wins and 4.5 road wins if you round up the 0.5). 13's been enough to win at least a share 5 times (3 times in the Self era) and two of those 3 under Self were shared.

***unless noted this is from the Big 12's inception in 1997

So next year if you want to sound really smart, if it looks like we're very strong top-to-bottom, you can say that 13 might be enough outright and a share at 12 is totally possible. If we have 2 or 3 bad teams going into conference season, you can say that it'll probably take at least 14 to get the title.

"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
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