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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Does anyone know why Garrett got the start over Newman?
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7 years 6 months ago #14996
by porthawk
Was it to send a message to Newman?
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- Hawknmo
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7 years 6 months ago #14998
by Hawknmo
RKCKJHK!!!
IMHO its simple...Garrett is a better team player. If you only look at the box score it may appear that Malik actually had a better game. But for me the eye test tells a different story. To me Newman looks like someone trying to prove his worth instead of a teammate trying to help his team win. He also has the uncanny ability to miss a shot or commit a turnover at exactly the wrong time. Take the one free throw he missed. No one is perfect and 4-5 is exceptional, but if he hits the front end on his one miss the game is over much earlier. Further inspection of that box score also reveals something as well. In under 20 minutes of play Garrett had 2 assists, 2 steals and only one turnover. Malik in almost thirty minutes had NO assists, NO steals and 2 turnovers. I have always believed HCBS has a “thing” for non one and done underclassmen and their minutes. To me Garrett is just another example of that. He started the game, had only one turnover, was clearly unselfish but played almost half the minutes of a questionable upper class-men. I get it, freshmen have to prove themselves. IMHO Garrett already has.
RKCKJHK!!!
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7 years 6 months ago #15000
by mtnMan
Malik did have some great rebounds at key times but otherwise I agréée with assessment that he is not a team player. Whenever he gets the ball i wonder if he will pass it. Is he the worst McD player ever? We need for him to figure it out and i’m Sure Self thought some thinking time on bench would help
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7 years 6 months ago #15001
by Hawknmo
RKCKJHK!!!
“Is he the worst McD player ever?”
Uhhhh no...that special place in my mind rests with one Josh Selby.
Uhhhh no...that special place in my mind rests with one Josh Selby.
RKCKJHK!!!
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7 years 6 months ago #15008
by hairyhawk
IMHO I think, as I said in another post, HCBS sees Mr Newman as his only player with the ability to give Devonte a few minutes rest. As far as the starting goes I agree that from my perspective as well Mr. Garrett is a better fit for the team. He plays better team defense and is a believer in doing no harm on offense. I also think that Mr. Newman's biggest issue is hitting his outside shot and he came in with the label of being able to make that shot. It may not be fixed this year but I think before he graduates he will be threat to the other team from 3.
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7 years 6 months ago #15018
by Illhawk
No conversation on that topic would be complete without mention of Carlton Bragg.
I guess my disappointment with Newman is that we keep hearing that he was tearing up practices back even with Frank and JJ on the team. I was expecting another Archie Marshall.
I guess my disappointment with Newman is that we keep hearing that he was tearing up practices back even with Frank and JJ on the team. I was expecting another Archie Marshall.
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7 years 6 months ago #15025
by NotOstertag
"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
Agree 100% on the Garrett/Newman assessment. For several games now, I've seen Garrett hustling and doing things that don't necessarily show up in the box score. At least several times in a game, he'll do something....typically some kind of hustle play or defensive play or rebound... where it's apparent that he's 1.) working really hard, and 2.) playing with a "team first" mentality.
I remember seeing RussRob get some limited minutes when KU traveled to Princeton during his freshman year (I was at the game) and despite very limited play, he stood out as a quick kid who played defense and was locked in. In other words, he differentiated himself from the team in a very good way. Garrett is doing the same thing right now, and as he develops and gets more minutes, it'll benefit the team.
This isn't a bash on Newman. He's a good player and has great talent, but I don't think he's applying it correctly. As has been pointed out, his box score is lacking in steals, assists, rebounds and other "team" supportive areas. That being said, I do think he's improving. He's still a "score first" guy, but I do see his defense getting a little better, and more importantly I see his decisions getting better (don't just launch a 3, and if/when you drive look to kick it back out if you don't have a path to the rim).
To sum it up, I think Garrett is much more of a blank slate for HCBS to work with, and he's got great skills coming in. Newman has great skills, but has to unlearn quite a bit of what he's brought with him.
I remember seeing RussRob get some limited minutes when KU traveled to Princeton during his freshman year (I was at the game) and despite very limited play, he stood out as a quick kid who played defense and was locked in. In other words, he differentiated himself from the team in a very good way. Garrett is doing the same thing right now, and as he develops and gets more minutes, it'll benefit the team.
This isn't a bash on Newman. He's a good player and has great talent, but I don't think he's applying it correctly. As has been pointed out, his box score is lacking in steals, assists, rebounds and other "team" supportive areas. That being said, I do think he's improving. He's still a "score first" guy, but I do see his defense getting a little better, and more importantly I see his decisions getting better (don't just launch a 3, and if/when you drive look to kick it back out if you don't have a path to the rim).
To sum it up, I think Garrett is much more of a blank slate for HCBS to work with, and he's got great skills coming in. Newman has great skills, but has to unlearn quite a bit of what he's brought with him.
"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
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7 years 6 months ago #15028
by konza63
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
I concur with the flock on this one re: Garrett and Newman. But given our depth this year (lack thereof), I think both have key roles to play and contributions to give.
I've talked a lot offline with HawkE about Newman, with both of us expressing concerns that have only deepened as the season has progressed. At this point, with this many games under his belt, it's hard to imagine there is "another gear" for him to find and that this is anything but who he actually is. That being said, I am personally trying to "shift my frame" on Newman and thereby adjust expectations. Like everyone else, I looked at his back-story and recruiting status (chased by UK and us, 5-star phenom, etc.), and I read the Self press clippings last year on how he was the "best athlete" in practice. So, like everyone else, my expectations for him were sky-high, and have been summarily dashed often this year.
So I'm shifting a bit on him. I'm trying to "forget" all the ink and hype on him and just look at him as the equivalent of a freshman player on the team. Yes, I know, he played a full year before and then had a year of practice with us, but he's now playing his first year at KU, so that's how I'm trying to view it. And I'm just trying to view him as a "nobody" who is on the court playing in our system. When I do that, I can actually glean some clear contributions and, yes, even some upside. He too often chucks the ill-advised three (as he did yesterday, when we were up 5 and prepared to run away with the game, and his miss led to a UT breakaway and foul, if I recall, for a 6-point swing). The missed first FT in crunch time was also telling, as Hawknmo noted. Very bad timing on both counts. But then there are times where he hits a nice three, defends nicely, or does something else--as he did yesterday in hitting the REST of his key free throws down the stretch. (He hadn't shot a FT since November, so the first one could've arguably just been rust shaking off)
The other thing I saw--and LOVED--was the KU breakaway when DG found him flying up the court and he just went all instincts, going right at the UT defender and flying into the air, MJ-style, and thunderously dunking the ball. THAT might have been his best play of the year, and a signature moment, because it was just pure, unadulterated MOJO and swag and instincts on display. After the play, UT called a timeout and Self gave him a huge smile, saying something congratulatory to him as he came to the bench. He flashed the biggest grin and you could just see that it was a special moment for him, and between he and Coach Self.
Here's to looking at him with less hyped lenses, and just watching him contribute and grow, along with our solid young freshman, Mr. Garrett (who is my son Garrett's favorite new KU player--go figure!)
I've talked a lot offline with HawkE about Newman, with both of us expressing concerns that have only deepened as the season has progressed. At this point, with this many games under his belt, it's hard to imagine there is "another gear" for him to find and that this is anything but who he actually is. That being said, I am personally trying to "shift my frame" on Newman and thereby adjust expectations. Like everyone else, I looked at his back-story and recruiting status (chased by UK and us, 5-star phenom, etc.), and I read the Self press clippings last year on how he was the "best athlete" in practice. So, like everyone else, my expectations for him were sky-high, and have been summarily dashed often this year.
So I'm shifting a bit on him. I'm trying to "forget" all the ink and hype on him and just look at him as the equivalent of a freshman player on the team. Yes, I know, he played a full year before and then had a year of practice with us, but he's now playing his first year at KU, so that's how I'm trying to view it. And I'm just trying to view him as a "nobody" who is on the court playing in our system. When I do that, I can actually glean some clear contributions and, yes, even some upside. He too often chucks the ill-advised three (as he did yesterday, when we were up 5 and prepared to run away with the game, and his miss led to a UT breakaway and foul, if I recall, for a 6-point swing). The missed first FT in crunch time was also telling, as Hawknmo noted. Very bad timing on both counts. But then there are times where he hits a nice three, defends nicely, or does something else--as he did yesterday in hitting the REST of his key free throws down the stretch. (He hadn't shot a FT since November, so the first one could've arguably just been rust shaking off)
The other thing I saw--and LOVED--was the KU breakaway when DG found him flying up the court and he just went all instincts, going right at the UT defender and flying into the air, MJ-style, and thunderously dunking the ball. THAT might have been his best play of the year, and a signature moment, because it was just pure, unadulterated MOJO and swag and instincts on display. After the play, UT called a timeout and Self gave him a huge smile, saying something congratulatory to him as he came to the bench. He flashed the biggest grin and you could just see that it was a special moment for him, and between he and Coach Self.
Here's to looking at him with less hyped lenses, and just watching him contribute and grow, along with our solid young freshman, Mr. Garrett (who is my son Garrett's favorite new KU player--go figure!)

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
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