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Post mortem
- LSHawk
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1) no Azabuike?
2) HCBS is cursed?
3) B12 is overrated?
4) off court distractions?
5) not our time?
6) over reliance on 3's?
7) under emphasis of defense?

9) other?
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- Governors
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#9 - Other......Oregon shot lights out and the Hawks didn't even come close to their usual shooting percentage. Even with that, they were able to close it to 6 late in the 2nd half. They were just cold last night, well actually freezing.
JMHO
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- LSHawk
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- Wheatstate Gal
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I worried that we had been sooooo on for sooooo long, that we would re-set and have to waller/rassle in the mud. And I hoped we wouldn't get mired.
I think we all knew Oregon is good and we'd need to hit on all cylinders....playing a couple of guys against 5 who are smokin'.....
Dang!!! rats.
Still no sunshine in CA.....
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- LSHawk
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I know, no use crying over spilled milk, but more than ever, i want answers. Sure, we're beyond great during the season (unless the B12 is overrated), but a dud in post season. Maybe there's too much emphasis on final 4's and NCs, but these are stats by which we are falling behind the other blue bloods.
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- LSHawk
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- hairyhawk
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- LSHawk
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- LSHawk
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- DrJHawker
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The other item on your list that strikes me is Azabuike. On a positive note, after Azabuike was out, Landen seemed to step up. Yet, I think a healthy, seasoned Azabuike in the middle would have changed things last night. For me, the Azabuike season ending injury was #1 on the list. Way worse than the off-court youthful indiscretions.
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- JRhawk
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- Senex68
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Bill Self choked. He choked every throat of every player on this team, and the only one able to push away his hands and play to ability was Frank Mason. By announcing to the world that the Elite Eight is the most difficult game to win in the tournament he did 3 things to damage his team's ability to play to their ability. First, he created a sense of doubt in their minds about their ability to win. Second, he damaged the rather fragile egos of several of the team members, creating doubt in their minds, and negatively impacting their ability to deal with the obvious pressure of the game. Third, he gave the confident players 'extra' incentive to play even harder than normal, which forced them to play out of their comfort zone, which we generally call 'playing tight.' The result was clear. Our best player, and the one player capable of creating and maintaining his own motivation, and playing to his ability, was Frank Mason. Our next best players, Josh Jackson and Devonte Graham, played tight and simply couldn't get out of their own ways for most of the game. They never played with confidence and fluidity, and we all saw the result. And our other players, one of whom never got off the bench, simply lacked the confidence they needed to play 'normally,' and we saw the result.
I simply cannot fathom why Self had to shout out to the world how insecure HE was about the game. It just made no sense, and the almost guaranteed that the team would play tight, and fail to move on. For the entire game we looked almost lost, except when Frank took it upon himself to carry the team on his back. Why he didn't continue to carry the team during the 2nd half is probably a result of fatigue and Self's extremely odd coaching. Or perhaps Self's total lack of coaching. Or Self's bizarre strategy. But whatever the reason or reasons why Frank couldn't or wouldn't continue to play HIS game, Bill Self lost this one for KU. Right now he needs to reevaluate how he approaches these Elite 8 games, or he will never win one for us.
"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”
Glenn Reynolds
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- LSHawk
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- HawkErrant
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- b82, g84 Lift the chorus...
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Can't and won't even try.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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- konza63
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- c'85 Towering toward the Blue
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I don't know.
What I do know is that, in Self's defense, he didn't get our most talented and athletic player taken completely out of the game (and flow) just a few minutes after the opening tip. He didn't ask to have to play Svi and Vick at the same time as a rarely used lineup that was required for a major chunk of the first half due to those fouls. He didn't control the fact that Oregon was hitting 3s in the opening half that bounced off the rim several feet up and then back through the net--or banked off the glass into the rim right before the buzzer sounded. He didn't personally chuck up open-look 3 after open-look 3 without any success whatsoever (DG, here's looking at you). He didn't cause our players to clang into one another on multiple occasions, causing sure rebounds to go back to Oregon to give their possessions new life.
Notwithstanding things he DID actually have some control over and might have changed, the above aspects were bonecrushing in their effect on the game--and just as clearly as any other factor (including the Self tightness theory) were the difference between a loss and a win.
Players have to play. And aside from Frank and Svi last night, none of ours got it done. Looking beyond Graham and Jackson, Landon alone missed enough close-in bunnies to alter the outcome. There are just so many variables in the mix...
Lastly, even if there's something to the notion that Self has an E-8 monkey on his back, which seems clear, here's the rub: You can't have an Elite 8 problem if your program isn't consistently good enough to provide you with the opportunity to HAVE that problem in the first place. In other words, KU under Self has been a model of elite winning consistency, as evidenced by the fact that we now own the record for most consecutive NCAA tourney appearances. That is something to be treasured and admired, and I'd never want to convey the impression (or buy into the concept) that KU should trade Self for someone who will bring far less winning consistency yet once in a blue moon get us a title.
I want Bill Self to continue to be our coach, for he is an elite winner and a good program/university steward. But I ALSO want him to take a seriously objective look in the mirror and make some corrections (staff, planning, hypnotist, psychologist, motivational specialist, or SOMETHING!) to help get over this freaking speed bump that prevents KU from achieving elite level POST-SEASON success that is commensurate with its regular season success and historical bloodline. The program deserves that level of success. The players deserve it. And HE himself deserves it, for all that he consistently puts into his trade.
Hope this makes sense. Typing on a phone, so excuse if not, or if typos...
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
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- HawkErrant
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But, while we cannot absolutely know for sure, I think many would agree with me that the coaching specific things that were done -- like before the game talking about how the E8 game is actually the toughest game to win and otherwise unwittingly displaying fear in front of his troops) -- or weren't done (more use of the devastating press displayed earlier in the year??) -- hurt, and hurt badly. And that Larry* or Roy would have handled things differently -- so much so that this conversation would probably not be happening. Or at the very least we would have been competitive in losing.
Like you, this is NOT to say we want someone else.
It IS to say that we want our guy to do better in the postseason!
I like your potential courses of action, none of which are mutually exclusive.
And I think I can safely say that we ALL share your hopes!
ROCK CHALK!
*Did you hear Reggie Miller during the game talking about how Larry Brown was simply the best in-game Xs and Os coach he has ever seen? Man, I wish Larry would sit down with Bill and go over the video of the bad games this year to talk about what Bill was thinking and why he did what he did. I'd bet Bill would benefit. Hey, do you think Larry would consider being an assistant coach as his retirement job?

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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- konza63
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- c'85 Towering toward the Blue
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“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
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- Senex68
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"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”
Glenn Reynolds
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- AZhawk87
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If not for a consensus POY season from Mason, we would have had eight losses, at least.
We thought we would have Bragg playing at an NBA draft ready level and AZ becoming a force by the end of the season. We ended up with an A+ effort from Lucas all season, which unfortunately is a B- compared to D-1 starting centers. We got a D at best from Bragg, and nothing from AZ. We played Oregon with Coleby as our first sub, and he played about 30 minutes the entire season. That is the definition of "polar opposite" from what we expected to see this season.
Svi and Graham are very good, and I really enjoy them. But Svi airballs and clanks as many as he makes, and he plays 6-2 instead of 6-8, and is a liability on defense. Graham is one of the best streaky shooters and tough defenders, but has no mid range or rim game. Neither are elite athletes, and they were overwhelmed by the Oregon athletes.
JJ was the best, and most enjoyable, OAD we've ever had. But relying on a freshman in March generally leads to disappointment. They just haven't played on a stage that big. It showed in spades against the Ducks.
Overall, with the off court stuff thrown in, I think we vastly exceeded our potential. Go back to December and if we knew even some of the above issues, we would be pleased with having made it to the E8.
And finally, I do think the B-12 is over rated. At home each team is tough, but Iowa State, Baylor, etc. rarely dominate in the tourney, and I don't think anyone fears them. WVU wins a few games with their press, but are always exposed by a better team eventually. I think KU's dominance of the conference has destroyed other team's confidence to a point where the conference under performs in the tourney. A more wide open conference where three or four teams vie for the title would bring the overall level up by March.
I came away this season with two new all time favorites - Lucas and Mason - and enjoyed the season much more than the past few. Can't wait for next season to start.
On to football !! When was the last time any of us could say that with a straight face??
Rock Chalk.
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- Riverhawk
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Ran into a hot and very talented team (Bell was terrific!) and Jackson's foul trouble had a big impact.
Having said all that, I am not trying to ignore Self's problems in the tournament. They exist and are real. But this team deserves kudos for a heckuva run despite some real flaws and limitations.
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