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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
predictions for Purdue game
- asteroid
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7 years 3 weeks ago #12886
by asteroid
Now the cupcakes AND the pretenders have been eliminated, and we're down
to the top 16 teams. The weakest still standing, according to Pomeroy,
is Xavier, whose Sagarin Predictor rating is within 10 points of top-ranked
Gonzaga. That's less than a single standard deviation, so the odds of an
upset in any single game are near 20 percent. Next up for Kansas is
another B1G team. (Meanwhile, Baylor gets to play USC again. And West
Virginia gets to try its press on Gonzaga.)
Sagarin gives Kansas a 1.75 point margin, with a 58.3 percent probability
of winning the game. Purdue has been playing games that average 147.6
total points, comparable to Oklahoma, the fifth-highest scoring team in
the Big 12. By comparison, Kansas has been playing games that average
155.4 total points, the second-highest in the Big 12. The average of the
two teams is therefore 151.5 points, suggesting a final score of Kansas 77,
Purdue 75. Kansas has been playing 0.44 points above expectation, while
the Boilermakers have been playing 0.50 points above expectation, which
decreases the margin for Kansas to 1.69 points. The inconsistency for
Kansas increased yet again after the big win over Michigan State, but
7.2 points is still amazingly low. On the other hand, the predicted
margins for the remaining game are all sufficiently small that a small
inconsistency doesn't matter all that much. Kansas has played 15 of the
34 games below expectation by more than 1.75 points, corresponding to a
44.1 percent probability of losing the game. Meanwhile, Purdue has
played 16 of the 34 games above expectation by more than 1.75 points,
corresponding to a 47.1 percent probability of winning the game. Those
two probabilities average to a 45.6 percent probability of Kansas losing,
a bit more pessimistic than the 41.7 percent chance derived from the
Sagarin Predictor ratings. Kansas has a positive trend, while Purdue
has a negative trend, though neither is statistically significant. Both
teams have negative mental toughness ratings, but that doesn't matter
when two teams have nearly identical power ratings. Taken at face value,
the margin for Kansas would be 3.3 points, thanks to the trends. The
various Sagarin rating methods produce margins ranging from 1.65 to 6.83
points. The "offense-defense" method is the most pessimistic at 1.65
points, with a final score of Kansas 79, Purdue 78, the total for Kansas
missing being rounded up to 80 by a mere 0.01 points.
It should be noted at this point that all these prognostications are
based on the game being played on a neutral court. In reality, however,
Kansas is playing on a familiar Sprint Center court with a pro-Kansas
crowd in attendance. If we instead treated it as a home game, Sagarin's
3.03 point home court advantage would kick in, and the probability of
winning jumps to 71.5 percent.
Massey gives Kansas a 3.0 point margin, with a 61 percent probability of
winning the game. His projected final score is Kansas 81, Purdue 78.
Pomeroy has Kansas with the better adjusted offense by 4.3 units, but
Purdue has the better adjusted defense by 1.8 units. Those combine to
a 2.5 units advantage for Kansas. With the average adjusted tempo being
69.7 possessions, the margin would be 1.74 points, virtually identical
to the Sagarin Predictor margin. The final score would then be Kansas 75,
Purdue 74, with the rounding working in the Boilermakers' favor.
Greenfield gives Kansas a 5.0 point margin, with a Vegas implied final score
of Kansas 81, Purdue 76. Looks to me like Greenfield is taking into account
the fact that the Sprint Center is more like a home game for Kansas. Among
the key offensive stats, Kansas has the advantage in six out of eight
categories; Purdue has a larger average margin of victory by 1.2 points and
dishes 2.1 more assists per game. Among the key defensive stats, Kansas has
the advantage in just three of the seven categories, namely grabbing 2.2 more
offensive rebounds per game, blocking 2.1 more shots per game, and stealing
1.9 more balls per game.
Dunkel gives Kansas a whopping 11.5 point margin, and he claims that a Vegas
line is at 4.0 points, so he is picking Kansas in both the game and against
the spread. His total points is 162, suggesting a final score of Kansas 87,
Purdue 75. Meanwhile, the Vegas total is 156.5, suggesting a final score of
Kansas 80, Purdue 76.
Real Time gives Kansas a 3.0 point margin, with a 55.5 percent probability of
winning the game, and a final score of Kansas 79, Purdue 76. Curious that
Real Time has a prediction for the Purdue game up, but hasn't yet incorporated
the result of the Michigan State game into his ratings, apparently.
Another oddity is that Collegiate Basketball News is continuing to update the
RPI. In past seasons, once Selection Sunday had occurred, the RPI was frozen.
Anyway, Kansas dropped to #4 in the RPI behind Arizona, Villanova, and
Kentucky. I guess Kentucky got the bigger boost by beating a Wichita State
team with a sparkling record.
Dolphin gives Kansas a 1.80 point margin, with a 56.1 percent probability of
winning, and a final score of Kansas 78, Purdue 76.
Colley gives Kansas a 4.57 point margin using the scaling factor of 42.23
as determined previously.
Whitlock gives Kansas a 1.69 point margin using the scaling factor of 0.730 as
determined previously. It should be noted that Whitlock hasn't updated his
ratings with the results of the NCAA Tournament games.
The new and improved BPI gives Kansas a 1.7 point margin, with a 56.3 percent
probability of winning.
Kansas remains at #7 in the LRMC, which also hasn't been updated with the
results of the NCAA Tournament games.
Seven Overtimes doesn't have predictions for Thursday's games up yet.
Crotistics gives Kansas a 0.61 point margin.
There are four common opponents, one of which Kansas has played twice and two
of which Indiana has played twice, giving us seven scores to compare:
KU +20 MSU neutral (+20 neutral court) KU +20 MSU neutral (+20 neutral court)
P +11 MSU on road (+14 neutral court) P +17 MSU at home (+14 neutral court)
KU +6 P neutral ( +6 neutral court) KU +6 P neutral ( +6 neutral court)
KU +17 NU at home (+14 neutral court)
P -3 NU on road ( 0 neutral court)
KU +14 P neutral (+14 neutral court)
KU -4 IU neutral ( -4 neutral court) KU -4 IU neutral ( -4 neutral court)
P +5 IU on road ( +8 neutral court) P +11 IU at home ( +8 neutral court)
KU -12 P neutral (-12 neutral court) KU -12 P neutral (-12 neutral court)
KU +4 ISU on road ( +7 neutral court) KU -3 ISU at home ( -6 neutral court)
P +4 ISU neutral ( +4 neutral court) P +4 ISU neutral ( +4 neutral court)
KU +3 P neutral ( +3 neutral court) KU -10 P neutral (-10 neutral court)
Although four of the seven comparisons favor Kansas, the average favors Purdue
by 0.71 points. However, once again the Indiana comparison isn't entirely fair
given that Kansas played the Hoosiers when they had Anunoby, while Purdue had
the advantage of playing them both times without Anunoby. He scored 3.3 more
points than the sixth man on the Hoosiers' team, so if we adjust the margins of
the two Indiana games by that amount, the average would favor Kansas by 0.2 points.
And again, keep in mind that the Sprint Center represents at least a semi-home game
for Kansas, which ought to be worth a point or two.
Players to watch: Forward Caleb Swanigan plays the most minutes, scores the most
points, grabs the most rebounds, and blocks the most shots, but also commits the
most turnovers as well as the most personal fouls; guard Dakota Mathias dishes
the most assists; guard Carsen Edwards is their leading thief. Obviously
Swanigan is the key, but he is less foul prone than Landen Lucas.
So, the various prognostications range from a 0.7 point loss (common opponents) to
an 11.5 point win (Dunkel). The average is 3.08 points in favor of Kansas,
suggesting a final score of Kansas 77, Purdue 74.
Rock Chalk!
=================================== Sagarin ====================================
Rate SoS PP GM Rcnt Perf Inc. Trend Mental Tufness
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- -------------- --------------
Kansas # 6 # 7 # 6 # 3 # 3 +0.4 7.2 +0.10 +/- 0.13 -0.18 +/- 0.14
Purdue # 11 # 42 # 12 # 13 # 14 +0.5 9.4 -0.08 +/- 0.17 -0.14 +/- 0.16
= Massey = = Pomeroy = Greenfield Dunkel Real Time === RPI ===
Rate SoS Rate SoS Rate SoS Rate Rate SoS Rate SoS
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Kansas # 4 # 3 # 7 # 9 # 4 # 3 # 8 # 3 # 33 # 4 # 28
Purdue # 14 # 26 # 12 # 43 # 13 # 22 # 17 # 14 # 53 # 18 # 48
======================= Dolphin ====================== =====
Std. Med. Pre. IRPI RPI Pair Poll Sched Recrd
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----- -----
Kansas # 1 # 1 # 6 # 2 # 4 # 1 # 2 1.153 30-4
Purdue # 14 # 14 # 11 # 14 # 18 # 14 # 14 0.975 27-7
= Colley = Whitlock ESPN BPI == LRMC == == 7OT === Crotistics
Rate SoS Rate SoS Rate SoS Rate SoS Rate SoS Rate SoS
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Kansas # 1 # 23 # 5 # 6 # 8 # 18 # 7 # 3 # 16 # 15 # 11 # 24
Purdue # 13 # 43 # 11 # 45 # 13 # 45 # 14 # 48 # 17 # 47 # 15 # 50
Here is Kansas' season, including the higher seeded opponent in the
tournament bracket, along with the cumulative probability of reaching
that level and ultimately winning the national championship (6.1 percent):
SITE OPPONENT SCORE PREDIC ERROR PROB.
---- ----------------------------- ------- ------ ----- -----
NEUT # 30 Indiana 99 103 +7.42 -11.42
NEUT # 9 Duke 77 75 +1.06 +0.94
HOME #174 Siena 86 65 +24.46 -3.46
HOME #168 UAB 83 63 +24.05 -4.05
HOME # 56 Georgia 65 54 +13.89 -2.89
HOME #128 NC Asheville 95 57 +21.74 +16.26
HOME #204 Long Beach State 91 61 +26.94 +3.06
HOME # 89 Stanford 89 74 +18.06 -3.06
HOME #234 Kansas City(UMKC) 105 62 +28.50 +14.50
HOME # 97 Nebraska 89 72 +18.85 -1.85
HOME # 83 Davidson 89 71 +17.46 +0.54
AWAY #222 UNLV 71 53 +21.79 -3.79
AWAY # 44 TCU 86 80 +5.67 +0.33
HOME # 32 Kansas State 90 88 +10.94 -8.94
HOME # 43 Texas Tech 85 68 +11.72 +5.28
AWAY # 59 Oklahoma 81 70 +7.98 +3.02
HOME # 22 Oklahoma State 87 80 +7.40 -0.40
AWAY # 16 Iowa State 76 72 -0.38 +4.38
HOME # 61 Texas 79 67 +14.17 -2.17
AWAY # 4 West Virginia 69 85 -3.96 -12.04
AWAY # 5 Kentucky 79 73 -3.42 +9.42
HOME # 15 Baylor 73 68 +5.65 -0.65
HOME # 16 Iowa State 89 92 +5.68 -8.68
AWAY # 32 Kansas State 74 71 +4.88 -1.88
AWAY # 43 Texas Tech 80 79 +5.66 -4.66
HOME # 4 West Virginia 84 80 +2.10 +1.90
AWAY # 15 Baylor 67 65 -0.41 +2.41
HOME # 44 TCU 87 68 +11.73 +7.27
AWAY # 61 Texas 77 67 +8.11 +1.89
HOME # 59 Oklahoma 73 63 +14.04 -4.04
AWAY # 22 Oklahoma State 90 85 +1.34 +3.66
NEUT # 44 TCU 82 85 +8.70 -11.70
NEUT #203 UC Davis 100 62 +23.82 +14.18
NEUT # 34 Michigan State 90 70 +8.30 +11.70
NEUT # 12 Purdue +1.75 0.583 0.583
NEUT # 13 Oregon +2.23 0.595 0.347
NEUT # 2 North Carolina -1.44 0.438 0.152
NEUT # 1 Gonzaga -2.31 0.402 0.061
Here is Purdue's season:
SITE OPPONENT SCORE PREDIC ERROR PROB.
---- ----------------------------- ------- ------ ----- -----
HOME #324 McNeese State 109 65 +34.39 +9.61
HOME # 3 Villanova 76 79 +0.15 -3.15
HOME #150 Georgia State 64 56 +21.35 -13.35
NEUT #114 Utah State 85 64 +16.38 +4.62
NEUT # 79 Auburn 96 71 +12.31 +12.69
HOME #283 NJIT(New Jersey Tech) 79 68 +29.97 -18.97
AWAY # 8 Louisville 64 71 -4.23 -2.77
HOME #199 Morehead State 90 56 +24.29 +9.71
NEUT #111 Arizona State 97 64 +15.86 +17.14
HOME #242 Cleveland State 77 53 +27.35 -3.35
NEUT # 26 Notre Dame 86 81 +3.28 +1.72
HOME #299 Western Illinois 82 50 +31.22 +0.78
HOME #302 Norfolk State 91 45 +31.76 +14.24
HOME # 68 Iowa 89 67 +13.53 +8.47
HOME # 37 Minnesota 82 91 +9.80 -18.80
AWAY # 64 Ohio State 76 75 +6.70 -5.70
HOME # 17 Wisconsin 66 55 +4.10 +6.90
AWAY # 68 Iowa 78 83 +7.47 -12.47
HOME # 67 Illinois 91 68 +13.45 +9.55
HOME # 82 Penn State 77 52 +15.60 +9.40
AWAY # 34 Michigan State 84 73 +3.52 +7.48
AWAY # 97 Nebraska 80 83 +11.04 -14.04
HOME # 38 Northwestern 80 59 +9.93 +11.07
AWAY # 47 Maryland 73 72 +4.77 -3.77
AWAY # 30 Indiana 69 64 +2.64 +2.36
HOME #118 Rutgers 74 55 +19.61 -0.61
HOME # 34 Michigan State 80 63 +9.58 +7.42
AWAY # 82 Penn State 74 70 +9.54 -5.54
AWAY # 21 Michigan 70 82 -0.79 -11.21
HOME # 30 Indiana 86 75 +8.70 +2.30
AWAY # 38 Northwestern 69 65 +3.87 +0.13
NEUT # 21 Michigan 70 74 +2.24 -6.24
NEUT # 76 Vermont 80 70 +11.86 -1.86
NEUT # 16 Iowa State 80 76 +0.90 +3.10
NEUT # 6 Kansas -1.75 0.417
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- Wheatstate Gal
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7 years 3 weeks ago #12889
by Wheatstate Gal
No cupcakes. No cakewalks.
Control, focus, play Your game, fellas!!!
Rock chalk!
Asteroid, don't you feel like the man of the hour? We've ALL been waiting for u to arrive!
Welcome, glad to see you!
Control, focus, play Your game, fellas!!!
Rock chalk!
Asteroid, don't you feel like the man of the hour? We've ALL been waiting for u to arrive!
Welcome, glad to see you!
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- OreadExpress
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7 years 3 weeks ago #12892
by OreadExpress
Thanks for the excellent breakdown as always. I'll take those odds.
HCBS mentioned the key for KU is keeping Purdue out of rhythm. The amount of success they have with that and keeping Swanigen in check to some degree will decide this one.
Get after 'em fellas!
HCBS mentioned the key for KU is keeping Purdue out of rhythm. The amount of success they have with that and keeping Swanigen in check to some degree will decide this one.
Get after 'em fellas!
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- hoshi
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7 years 3 weeks ago - 7 years 3 weeks ago #12897
by hoshi
“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits”. Albert Einstein
This comes down to which team disrupts the other's offense the most and that will be determined, the most, by coaching. I put my money on HCBS.
“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits”. Albert Einstein
Last Edit: 7 years 3 weeks ago by hoshi.
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7 years 3 weeks ago #12898
by hoshi
“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits”. Albert Einstein
OOPs "which team"
“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits”. Albert Einstein
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- Wheatstate Gal
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7 years 3 weeks ago #12900
by Wheatstate Gal
How's Mrs H feeling today?
Is she feeling it???
Hoshi--pls check your private messages from me.....wheaty
Is she feeling it???
Hoshi--pls check your private messages from me.....wheaty
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- asteroid
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7 years 3 weeks ago #12926
by asteroid
Odds of a National Championship are now up to 10.6 percent.
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- NotOstertag
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7 years 3 weeks ago #12946
by NotOstertag
"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
So this was the prediction:
Boy was that off!
Just kidding. Thanks for all your great analysis. I think we broke the computers last night.
"So, the various prognostications range from a 0.7 point loss (common opponents) to
an 11.5 point win (Dunkel). The average is 3.08 points in favor of Kansas,
suggesting a final score of Kansas 77, Purdue 74."
Boy was that off!
Just kidding. Thanks for all your great analysis. I think we broke the computers last night.
"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
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