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Playing our core guys almost all the way to the end

  • konza63
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8 years 2 months ago #5669 by konza63
I loved every aspect of our win today, as noted earlier. The one slight thing that I didn't really get--or think was a service to the team going forward--was leaving Frank, Devonte, and Perry in the game even as we built a 24-point lead with less than 3 minutes to go.

As Newell put it in his wrap on the game:

Though Self was noncommittal early in the week about extending his starters’ minutes with the NCAA Tournament looming, he appeared to let the competitive juices take over in Thursday’s victory. Though KU held control most of the second half, Graham (34 minutes), Mason (32) and Ellis (30) didn’t receive extended rest, instead playing until the final media timeout at the 2:38 mark.

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I love Self's competitive streak, but I feel like our assistant coaches need to be a little more assertive at whispering in his ear at times like the above--just to say "Coach, we're up by a couple dozen, you want someone else to go in?" It doesn't have to be the walk-on guys, even, with Vick and Brannen and others available there.

I just know that, from about the 5-minute mark on down, I winced every time Frank or Devonte flew down the court on a breakout, risking a bad foul by a Purp that might send them flying, twisting an ankle or what-not (not to mention just them getting more gassed by being out there, with 2 more games to go in 2 successive days). Same thing with Perry out there--the guy who hurt himself on the final game of the season last year, just prior to the Dance, and then wasn't himself against the Shockers.

Maybe I worry too much, but in a game that was a big blowout, I just feel like the only thing I would've personally liked to have seen was a little less floor time for our crucial players toward the end.

Just my $.02...

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
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8 years 2 months ago #5680 by newtonhawk
Is it possible that HCBS enjoys watçhing his guys dismantle the purples as much as we do? I do think you are right about one of the assistants dropping some hints along the way. I suppose it is possible they are doing so and he is not heeding.

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8 years 2 months ago #5684 by HawkErrant
Is it possible that Self enjoys beating KSU?
Yes.
Is it possible that Self enjoys beating Squeaky even more?
Would a guy want to beat the team of the guy who held a funeral for him at his last job?
Mmmm... it's a possibility... :woohoo: :whistle: :P

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"

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8 years 2 months ago #5699 by Bayhawk
HCBS has told the lads, "Put the pedal to the metal for the next nine games." With the dreaded advance and survive approach to the dance, perhaps he is sending the message that our beloved Jayhawks cannot leave anything on the floor. Every game must result in a "W."

Obviously this isn't really true of the XII Tourney, but he is "ramping up" for the 64-32-16-8-4-2 ---- #1!!!!!!!!! :cheer:

I don't know, just musings while I wait for the caffeine to kick in,

RC

The end is nothing; the road is all.
-- Jules Michelet

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8 years 2 months ago #5702 by konza63
I get all the reasons, and I always believe you have to keep your foot on the opponent's neck until there is no doubt. But yesterday, that point came well before the under-3 mark, when the guys who are essential to our tourney success (starting next week) were still on the floor, flying up and down the court, going airborne, etc.

Over the years I've just seen far too many injuries occur right on the eve of the most important part of the season, so it makes me wince and squint. That's all.

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.

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8 years 2 months ago #5712 by Riverhawk
Konza, you have good reason for your comments. HCBS has done this for years...he burns out his point guards. It drives me crazy. I have tried not to harp on it this year, but here it is again. I think one key reason his teams have often underachieved in March is simply because the guards are worn out. There was NO reason to play those guys so many minutes yesterday, and yes, at some point it will hurt them going forward. I can go back to Aaron Miles against Georgia Tech and cite example after example. It is really a blind spot with him...and detrimental to his team. We've seen the difference in Mason's and Graham's play when they are fresh as opposed to when they are tired...you'd think Self would get it. Just....drives...me...up...the...wall.
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8 years 2 months ago #5716 by konza63
My main concern is avoiding injuries when it's a blowout and they don't have to be in.

As for the "fresh legs" argument, I can see that, too--but I just have to put my faith in Self and the staff that they have a good bead on that dimension, and manage it deftly.

We know they're going to have to play a lot tonight and, if they win, again tomorrow..then they'll get a few days of non-game action to hopefully rejuvenate. At this point in the season, it's "go time" and we just have to hope that our tenacious core guys can muster every ounce of energy they have to get the job done.

Fingers crossed...

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.

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8 years 2 months ago #5718 by Bayhawk
I would only offer what my graduate school advisor used to tell me: "Rest in the grave."



RC

The end is nothing; the road is all.
-- Jules Michelet
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8 years 2 months ago #5719 by JRhawk
I agree - PG's need rest. HCBS knows it (read some of the KUSports.com stories) - he admitted it - but seems to think they are indestructible, so can't help himself. Probably won't change today, since imagine Baylor will play tough and be in the game the whole way. Or, maybe since Danny will be there again, he will play Evan 20 minutes and let the chips fall where they may.

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8 years 2 months ago #5733 by Hawknmo
I was also amazed at seeing Graham and Mason in at the end. I was traveling during the second half and did not catch it all but when I could sneak a peek on the ESPN app I could not believe they and Perry were still out there. I know HCBS is competitve probably to a fault but this is another area where his philosophy and mine differ. With 9:59 to go the score was 63-45. Im sorry but if Vick, Greene, Svi, Bragg and Hunter can't protect an 18 point lead then there is a bigger issue than we know.

For those "we gotta have Lucas, Bragg just isn't ready" believers out there....uhhh did you SEE the game? He's ready and he doesn't miss two foot dunks. As Oliver Twist said...please sir, I want SOME MORE!!

On to Baylor. They looked pretty good yesterday. We did not look all that good against a pretty pathetic 2-3 zone. Im sure the wizard of Waco saw that and we will get a bunch of it today. And the answer is....some more drive and dish from Frank and Devonte.

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8 years 2 months ago #5738 by konza63

For those "we gotta have Lucas, Bragg just isn't ready" believers out there....uhhh did you SEE the game? He's ready and he doesn't miss two foot dunks.


We're 13-1 since Landen was named the starter, with the sole loss coming at the very front end, back in late January in the hostile setting of Ames. So I personally am done going back and forth with you on Lucas. Clearly you can't stand him as a player, and no amount of empirical evidence as to how the team performs with him out there will change that.

As for Bragg yesterday, yes, in fact, I did see it. He hit two nice outside shots to further show off his game as a stretch 4, yet failed to get a single rebound and didn't play much interior defense.

His skill set is far more that of a stretch 4 than it is banging inside at the 5 spot (which is what Landen does, and does very well). Bragg is thin and malleable and needs to bulk up big-time if he's not going to get pushed around in the future. I love his upside, but his game at present is better served as a sub for Perry and/or as an extra scoring threat (without much defensive help inside).

Next year I look for Hudy to have beefed him up and for him to take on a much bigger role. As for this year, I'm hoping for some "Cole-like" minutes in the tourney, for good energy, and hitting some key buckets when called on...but as for playing the 5, that's Landen's spot, as has been shown in this solid KU winning streak (12 in a row with Lucas manning the middle). It's apples and oranges, in other words, so a zero-sum comparison of the two together is off-base, IMO.

My overall take is that Self is doing a masterful job now of working the rotation, to include inside with Jamari and Bragg as primary augmentative pieces for Ellis and Lucas. Same thing with Svi and Brannen outside. I really feel the rotation has clicked for Self and the team for going on well over a month now. I know you don't see it that way, but it's really hard to argue with the success we've had.

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
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8 years 2 months ago #5739 by Hawknmo
"As for Bragg yesterday, yes, in fact, I did see it. He hit two nice outside shots to further show off his game as a stretch 4, yet failed to get a single rebound and didn't play much interior defense. "

All valid stuff. My point is this 4 pts in 17 minutes vs. 12 points in 11 minutes. The four D boards (which to my knowledge have never shown up on a scoreboard) came because he doesn't have to be guarded. I'll take the points.

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8 years 2 months ago - 8 years 2 months ago #5741 by konza63
It was a great sight to see--Bragg scoring his career high. (See Newtonhawk's and my threads on it from yesterday--we were thrilled for the kid) But, again, Bragg doesn't play the 5, so it's not a good comparison. And Lucas does so many other things that complete the team, per the gazillion articles we've seen on that score. There's a reason, going far beyond points scored, that the other starters (and Self) want him in the paint, and so far it's paid off in spades.

A couple other points:

* Yesterday was "Bad Lucas" when it came to the inside shots--I noted that on here, as he missed two easy bunnies. But ever since being named starter, he's had far more "good" moments on offense than bad, which is pure gravy given all the other contributions he makes. To wit, looking over the 12-game winning streak, Lucas has averaged 7 points per game (alongside his 7.5 boards). Given the fact that his role is simply to complement the bountiful other scorers we have, while rebounding, playing solid D, setting crucial picks, and creating nice spacing for our other players, I'll take that production any day of the week.

* That was one game for Carlton. A supremely solid 11 minutes in terms of scoring production, which is awesome to see. But still only one game, not a long trend line...(in the prior 11 games he had 6, 2, 0, 0, 2, 6, 2, 0, 2, 0, and 2 points)...so you can't extrapolate from just one anomalous (albeit nice!) showing.

But the larger point is it's not a zero-sum thing. One is more of a 5, the other more of a stretch 4. And we don't need (or certainly want) one to do "badly" while the other performs well. Not a zero sum thing. I say let them ALL perform their roles and contribute, a la the '08 squad, so we are a truly formidable force out there. And then let Bragg come back next year and make the big sophomore leap--when we'll really need him to do so, given the loss of all of Perry's point production.

Just my take. I appreciate the back and forth.

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Last Edit: 8 years 2 months ago by konza63.

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8 years 2 months ago #5743 by JRhawk
I admit, Lucas does clog up the middle, but that's about it. KU had 10 offensive rebounds yesterday, Lucas had 0. Heck, I could stand there and pick up 4 defensive rebounds. The sad fact is, Lucas is the best of our 5's, but that is saying very little.

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8 years 2 months ago - 8 years 2 months ago #5748 by Senex68
Lucas did not have a great game yesterday. He was 'slow' and was reacting about 1 second too late on most plays. He was immovable inside, but the other guys did not block out at all, leaving him alone with much quicker players under the offensive board. Lucas is an odd player, and one quite difficult to appreciate, unless you prefer mustard to hot dogs. He's our mustard, and he's turned Oscar Meyer into Hebrew National. I prefer that to the alternative.

"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”

Glenn Reynolds
Last Edit: 8 years 2 months ago by Senex68.
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8 years 2 months ago #5750 by Slayer2384
I noticed something I don't see with HCBS very often late in yesterday's gome or maybe never. He seemed to be watching the game with a look of contentment or enjoyment almost like a proud papa. It almost looked like a faint smile. I think it was just before the last tv timeout when he started substituting out the starters.

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8 years 2 months ago #5760 by newtonhawk
I have to stand with Konza on this topic. Bragg has a tremendous upside, but his defense is lacking. When you look at when we turned the corner, it was when the defense picked up, and Lucas happened to be a part of that uptick, and for good reason. When coach sees Bragg watch a blow-by with an inability to recover, it drives him nuts. HCBS has never been about playing a game of horse with the opposition. He believes in the adage, "Defense wins championships."

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