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× Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball

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After that scintillating and very important road win...

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8 years 1 month ago - 8 years 1 month ago #3961 by konza63
...it's now time for KU to come back to the friendly confines of the Barn and squeeze some oranges.



Here's hoping we have some fuel left in the tank and stomp the Cowpokes into submission. I hope we get up by 30 so that Frank, Devonte, and company get some rest in the second half...and our other players get some good court time.

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Last Edit: 8 years 1 month ago by konza63.
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8 years 1 month ago #3964 by Senex68
I watched the game at 1 AM this morning. Long day but I saved the energy and enjoyed my early morning TV experience. It was a fine game, with a truly outstanding result. But as much as I enjoyed the game, there were 2 elements of the game that I think need to be considered. First of all, the refs were atrocious. I know they often are, but this game was a Rembrandt of incompetence. Their overall ability to perform ineptly was truly astonishing. Both teams suffered, but more importantly, the game suffered. I wonder why (for the ...............time!) why the various leagues permit this level of incompetence. It just makes no sense. Second, Wayne Selden is not playing well at all. It was another semi-stinker and we all should be concerned. If he doesn't turn it around, we're not going to go far in the NCAAs.

I do think we're getting better overall. But it's a bad sign when we have 11 assists and 14 turnovers. I know it's just a 'detail,' but it's not something we can overcome often. Our guards are still not great passers, and they are increasingly scorers. That is fine in some games, but at some point it's going to come back and bite us.

In any case, it was a great win, and really sets us up for Monday's utter destruction of the foul team from Stillwater. It's odd, but I dislike them more than any other team in the Big 12. Very odd. I'd like to beat them by 50. Maybe we will?

"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”

Glenn Reynolds

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8 years 1 month ago - 8 years 1 month ago #3969 by konza63
Glad you got to enjoy it, Peter. RE your critiques, my take:

* The Refs. I hate to drone on about officiating, as I prefer to let the games just speak for themselves, but I'm with you on this. It's gotten to be just utterly comical. I was dead-serious with my post last night that I don't know how Self exhibited such self-control in watching such an egregious case of gross buffoonery by the zebras. All the more so given the stakes involved--a KU loss would've all but ended our quest for #12. I literally would've been tempted to throw a chair, a la Bobby Knight, if I had been in his shoes. I don't even know what to say about it anymore, because it almost seems like a conscious effort on the part of the refs to a) make themselves more important than the game itself; and b) do all that they can to help conference foes take down KU, with a token call here and there in KU's favor to make it seem like they're not totally biased.

* Turnovers. Yes, that's too many, but I do feel like it's a bit of a "nitpick" for this huge win. I also would point out that our starters--who played 39, 32, 29, 28, and 26 minutes--only had 8 turnovers for the entire game. That's 8 turnovers on the road, in a hostile arena, playing one of the true top teams in the land, in a revenge game for them, with the national MVP on their squad, the Game Day crew on hand, the zebras in their pocket, and all the pressure on KU (as the team trying to stay in the running for #12). That's pretty impressive. Now, as for our bench (6 turnovers by 4 guys, including 3 by Greene alone), that's not good. But for our core players, they performed okay in that department, IMHO, given the tough backdrop cited above.

* Selden. Yep, not a good game from him at all. Just imagine, as one poster on here last night said, if we'd get all of our guys firing at the same time! But for whatever reason, Selden is prone to very bad swoons at times. Last night, Cousins was just schooling him--and trash-talking the entire time. Normally, you'd think that would get under the skin of a good player and he'd step it up. But instead, Wayne basically camped out beyond the three line and heaved up long bricks (except for one important trey in a KU run--his only made 3 of the game). The guy just seems to get completely dispirited when he's not hitting 3s. Self needs to rip him a new one, and inspire him to GO TO THE RIM in such instances. PLAY THROUGH YOUR DEFENSE. Gain energy from that, and impact the game in other ways! 2 rebounds in 32 minutes, while the much shorter Mason grabs 5 in 26? That's all effort and want-to, and Wayne shrunk from the game last night. That does need to get fixed if KU wants to make a deep run. We might be able to afford it in an early round game or something, but it can't be a consistent thing. He needs to step it up, following the lead of his fellow four starters. Now.

All told, though, I think this team has definitely turned a corner. The last 3 games have really underscored that. We need to not rest on our laurels or fall back to old habits now--keep the foot on the gas, let Self keep tweaking the machine to make it run even more efficiently, and we could very well be a team to be reckoned with in the forthcoming post-season.

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Last Edit: 8 years 1 month ago by konza63.

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8 years 1 month ago #3977 by Senex68
The one positive for us from Selden's slump is the decreasing likelihood that he's going to leave after this season is done. His inability to play at a high level on anything even resembling consistency dooms his chances of a 1st round draft. He's got the talent and the body, but his 'brain' doesn't work at the level necessary to get a job in the NBA quite yet. The lightbulb flashes, but can't seem to stay on.

"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”

Glenn Reynolds

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8 years 1 month ago #4019 by Hawknmo
Agreed on the "likelihood" comment. I also am of the train of thought that I believe one of our "beloved" ESPN commentators had, so much of Selden's game might depend on whether or not his first shot goes in. It seems odd for someone as talented as he is to have such roller coaster performances. But if he gets started well he seems to finish well. I still go back to Korea though. He was a real stud over there and besides the UK game I am still waiting for that guy to reappear.

I am wondering what a couple sharp minds think about the "likelihood" of Bragg returning? I think he might be gone. It is ill advised and too early but I think he just might go. The constant threat of the quick hook and the League's propensity to "draft on potential" lead me to believe he might make that choice. Thoughts?

RKCKJHK!!!

RKCKJHK!!!

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8 years 1 month ago - 8 years 1 month ago #4022 by konza63

I still go back to Korea though. He was a real stud over there and besides the UK game I am still waiting for that guy to reappear.


I'm with you, Hawknmo. If we can get that Selden for six games in March-April, and the rest of our guys are hitting on max cylinders, we become quite a force to reckon with.

RE: Bragg, I personally don't see the benefit of leaving now. He's not even showing up in the second round of most mocks, and in all of his public comments (even when asked about playing time at KU) he always says he's enjoying his time at KU and just trying to learn to be a better player from the experienced bigs. That seems to hint at a kid who is looking at his own development as a glide path, with next year being the breakout. Of course, that's just conjecture since I'm not inside his noggin, but that would comport nicely with what we're seeing on the court, too. (That he's not ready yet, needs another year)

Diallo is more of a concern (leaving) just because he's coming up as a mid-first-rounder on many mocks. He definitely needs another year just to learn the game of basketball, but will he do that or take the short-term cash?

PS: Selden is showing up very early 2nd round on most mocks...meaning he could still feasibly play himself into late first round if he closes like a beast and has a good tourney. Speaking of which, the "wild card" factor in all of these draft questions is how well KU performs in the tourney. If by some chance we hit the goldmine and win it all, then we could see multiple guys get drafted, just like UK, UNC, and others have seen happen in the recent past. A championship ring changes a lot of perceptions, and heightens players' draft stock in a big way. But that, of course, is getting way ahead of ourselves. Just putting it out there now, though, in the "what if" category. (Let's just say that it would be a VERY nice problem for KU to have!!!) ;)

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Last Edit: 8 years 1 month ago by konza63.

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8 years 1 month ago #4023 by CorpusJayhawk
As for the liklihood of anyone leaving I can not voice an intelligent opinion because i admit to a huge disconnect in the way I think and the way these young potential NBA'ers think and I am sure I do not fully understand the impact that the "hangers on" have on these young men. But the fact that I have no real educated opinion will not stop me from voicing one.

Bragg - Heck he may leave but he would be an idiot. He looks like a rag doll playing as a boy against men underneath the basket in the Big 12. He would get eaten alive in the NBA if he ever saw the floor. He does not have the game to be a Kevin Durant and live on the perimeter. He has a chance to get stronger and smarter and have a decent shot in the league. He is not ready period. Surely someone will advise him intelligently.

Diallo - Very Alexander-esque. Cliff has played a whopping 31 minutes of total trash time for Portland. He hasn't looked great in those. He may hang around a few years and may even work up to getting playing time. My guess is the lifestyle will erode his ability to stay growing at the high level he needs. This is the pattern of so many young stars. Diallo still looks lost. Granted, it seems to me the NBA does not run as many sets so maybe his inability to learn the sets will not translate into a problem. But he sure has shown me no reason he should be optimistic about going to the NBA.

Selden - Again, I can't see it. NBA back court guys are some of the toughest dudes around. They have a take no prisoners mentality and are mentally very tough. Selden is a very good college basketball player and has a solid NBA physique. But it seems to me he would get eaten alive by the dog eat dog NBA.

I don't see anyone else on this team that even should be realistically thinking about the NBA especially now. Brannen can shoot but his handle and defense are clearly not NBA ready. Mason, too small and not a shooter. Graham could possibly get there but he has a long way to go. Lucas will likely find a slot on some foreign roster but will not be on anyone's top 100 draft prospects. Where will Ellis go? If I were a betting man I'd say he goes undrafted and signs as a free agent.

Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!

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8 years 1 month ago #4027 by jammaman8647
I too really enjoyed another "W". However, I am still stymied on why Mickelson sees no action. I understand Lucas is stronger, and certainly able to rebound. Yet his offensive skills seem mostly "offesnsive" to me. I am encouraged to see Brannen, scoring points, however his defensive abilities seem weak at best; I think if we consider the points he scored, vs the number of points he allowed through free throw shooting, truly lessens his point production. Diablo is a as everyone notes a "work in progress", but I think there is no doubt he can grow into an incredible asset should he choose to stay, and CS, gives him the improved skill sets, and time to hone them in actual play...if not, he'd be smart to test the waters or transfer, IMHO. Bragg will be star, and hopefully stays around for all 4 yrs. Hopefully our offense will generate more driving attempts, which either add points via, the shot, or resulting FTrows and putting teams into foul trouble also offer potential benefits to us. I realize this is my first post of substance or on topic, and hopefully my insights draw only a few "raspberries", Thanks to all of you for your always informative and thoughtful post. RC!

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8 years 1 month ago #4029 by HawkErrant
He will either leave early for the pros (NBA or overseas) or stay at KU. Transferring would mean riding the pine for a year, he won't do that with his pro potential. If he doesn't go pro, he will stay at KU and look forward to learning how to be a 4 -- the position he will play at the next level -- next to Udoka's 5.

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"

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8 years 1 month ago - 8 years 1 month ago #4032 by konza63
Good stuff, Jammaman. Thanks for posting, and please do so more often.

I definitely like this statement, and concur:

Hopefully our offense will generate more driving attempts, which either add points via, the shot, or resulting FTrows and putting teams into foul trouble also offer potential benefits to us.


We're not taking it to the paint enough (esp. Selden, who loiters behind the arc far too much). Even if we just drive to probe the D, pull someone off their man, and dish under or back out, just go there a bit more often. We'll need that in the tourney, because you KNOW we're going to have a day where we run cold from outside (a la OU in the first half against us). That said, at least this isn't a "Boschee" or "Billy Thomas"* situation this year, where having just one sharpshooter go cold could ruin us. We have so many good shooters that the likelihood of a stone-cold night from everyone as much lower.

Rock Chalk...

* RE: Billy Thomas, that was another live tourney loss (and premature KU exit) that yours truly suffered through. We were completely reliant on Billy's bombs that season, and he couldn't have hit water if he fell out of a boat in that game. UVA over KU at Kemper, back in the day. Ugh... :evil: :whistle: :evil:

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Last Edit: 8 years 1 month ago by konza63.

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8 years 1 month ago #4063 by hairyhawk
I will throw out my $.02. I think he sees that he is the heir apparent to most of Perry's minutes. He has a much more developed outside game than any of our returning bigs and with a lot of work can become a real force. He has better vision for passing than Perry did at this stage. I am hoping he and his inner circle see that he has a chance to get in great draft placement next year. Hopefully he and his inner circle are not in too big of need for the money right away. I think something he needs is to learn is the importance and need to take care of your body the right way. I think Perry is a very different physical specimen this year compared to his first 3 years and Carlton can learn from that.

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8 years 1 month ago - 8 years 1 month ago #4114 by porthawk
Konza, this is a nice snapshot of what you were referring to, re: KU's shooting (specifically Billy Thomas's shot)

Deane -- who sets the plate for Virginia every night -- drove to the lane and double-pumped in a jump shot. After Kansas' Billy Thomas misguided a jump shot, Deane did an instant replay. His drive and basket made it a 4-point lead.

www.nytimes.com/1995/03/25/sports/ncaa-t...t-down-jayhawks.html
Last Edit: 8 years 1 month ago by porthawk.

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8 years 1 month ago - 8 years 1 month ago #4116 by konza63
Nice find.

I had forgotten what a wretched game Haase, Gurley, and Sean Pearson had as well. All I could remember was Billy throwing up brick after brick after brick from downtown. He finished 1-8, and all were three bombs.

Here's the sorry box score--turns out the entire team couldn't hit water if they were falling out of a boat that night.

www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/1995-03-24-kansas.html

Let's just say Ole Konza has experienced some tough ones live and in person (the '91 NC game vs. Puke was definitely a drag, along with the Oklahoma City flameout against UNI). But I've had good karma ever since taking my son to Omaha in 2012, when we not only got to see KU win but also cheered with delight in watching that "vaunted" Misery team get taken down in a 2 vs.15 shocker (Norfolk State). I went on that year to St. Louis and watched us knock off Ole Roy (again).

"Good times, bad times, you know I've had my share..." (Hat tip to the greatest band of all time) ;)

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Last Edit: 8 years 1 month ago by konza63.

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